A new start in Finescale OO: NSR Stone junction station

[Ex-Pat]

Nice to see such a brave venture undertaken! Didn't you post the photo taken from the station roof in the Quiz?

Half the battle is won with having so much research info already.

What overall space do you have available? (It always seems that compromise is necessary no matter what space there is!)

Have you considered SMP track as opposed to Peco - the sleeper spacing is considered more realistic?

What's your planned timescale for the various stages?

Will follow with interest.

[flying scotsman123]

That looks like it's going to be an impressive layout. Your Grandad would be very proud.
When I looked at the picture from the air I thought I recognised the station building, and lo and behold I was right!
I have the MODEL RAILWAY DETAILING MANUAL by Alan Postlethwaite (isbn: 1844252019) and it shows a picture on plate 8 (roughly page 12) of the station approach looking towards the station building.... and what looks to be a ground signal box on the right of the picture beyond the engine shed.
Also plate 9 shows a close up of the station building.
Thanks
End2end

Thanks End2End, that's the second time I've seen reference to an engine shed, are you sure you don't mean the goods shed? As I can't find any evidence of any loco stabling points apart from one other mentioned in passing. The signal box was originally situated elsewhere on the station site (I forget precisely where) so it may well be the original signal cabin, which would be interesting to see.

Nice to see such a brave venture undertaken! Didn't you post the photo taken from the station roof in the Quiz?

Half the battle is won with having so much research info already.

What overall space do you have available? (It always seems that compromise is necessary no matter what space there is!)

Have you considered SMP track as opposed to Peco - the sleeper spacing is considered more realistic?

What's your planned timescale for the various stages?

Will follow with interest.

Yes I did post a photo for the quiz. At the time Grandad was researching they were doing renovation work on the building so he asked to go up the scaffolding with a camera and a tape measure!

Overall space is just enough to fit everything in the red box (original annotations are my Grandad's so I guess that was what he planned to model) lengthways, but I should have room to include some of the pointwork at the bottom left to connect everything up and allow me to mess around with some wagons - once I've built them!

Hmm, SMP is handmade track isn't it? I don't think I'd have the skills for building track at the moment. It's something I'd like to do at some point, but one of the reasons I was getting despondent with my old layout was that I was having running problems, I don't want to switch them for a different set of running problems. So I think for now I'll stick to Peco code 75 as the best compromise. That and I'm not sure I can spare/have the time to construct pointwork, given that everything else, rolling stock and buildings will need to be built from scratch as well! Thanks for the suggestion though.

No particular timescale, but once my exams finish in a couple of weeks (hurrah) I'll have a 10 week long summer holiday. Almost half of that I will be spending at the GWSR though, I'm to begin training as a TTI and guard whilst continuing to restore the rolling stock in the workshops. I suspect baseboards won't be down until mid-summer, but that's not really much of a hindrance, as I already know where everything goes so can start building stuff. The only thing that might change once I start laying track is positioning of points, all the buildings are definitely secure. absolutely no one knows what to get me for Christmas and birthday in January) so I should get a big boost then!

[End2end]

Thanks End2End, that's the second time I've seen reference to an engine shed, are you sure you don't mean the goods shed? The signal box was originally situated elsewhere on the station site (I forget precisely where) so it may well be the original signal cabin, which would be interesting to see.

Sorry for the confusion and my mistake. Yes the plate states "On the far right, a new shed has been built alongside the original brick goods shed"
One of these days i'll be able to tell a goods from an enginge shed lol.
Also, just to reference the air photo and the plan. On both I can see the signal box, albeit from far away... but you've probably seen it already
I wonder if looking at pictures of signal boxes of the next up and down station on the line for comparison might be useful?

EDIT: also, just to mention for possible modelling potential, the plate also states "A concrete footbridge, left, crosses the line from Stafford - the drying kilns beyond show that we are near the potteries". On the air photo these would be a little further to the left
Thanks
End2end

[flying scotsman123]

Thanks End2End, that's the second time I've seen reference to an engine shed, are you sure you don't mean the goods shed? The signal box was originally situated elsewhere on the station site (I forget precisely where) so it may well be the original signal cabin, which would be interesting to see.

Sorry for the confusion and my mistake. Yes the plate states "On the far right, a new shed has been built alongside the original brick goods shed"
One of these days i'll be able to tell a goods from an enginge shed lol.
Also, just to reference the air photo and the plan. On both I can see the signal box, albeit from far away... but you've probably seen it already
I wonder if looking at pictures of signal boxes of the next up and down station on the line for comparison might be useful?
Thanks
End2end

Ah right, that makes sense. I presume the "new shed" is the one that doesn't reach the ground, looking at the aerial photo, and just potects a few open wagons for unloading purposes I suppose. Here it is in the 1980's, looking a bit worse for wear:



It seems to have been changed since the aerial photo about 50 years previous to this, but I think the ratio carriage shed might prove a half decent starting point.

[THE CHIEF]

"Aim high"
That's the spirit

[End2end]

Yes your spot on about the ratio kit flying scotsman123. From the air, it looks as if the kit was modelled on this very shed.
Thanks
End2end

[flying scotsman123]

Yes your spot on about the ratio kit flying scotsman123. From the air, it looks as if the kit was modelled on this very shed.
Thanks
End2end

Indeed, will just need a different roof as this one is slanted, whereas ratio's is arced.

[Ex-Pat]

Thanks End2End, that's the second time I've seen reference to an engine shed, are you sure you don't mean the goods shed? As I can't find any evidence of any loco stabling points apart from one other mentioned in passing.


Hmm, SMP is handmade track isn't it?

"The Directory of British Engine Sheds and Principal Locomotive Servicing Points: 2" (ISBN 0-86093-548-5) states on Page 232 that "A 1TS shed, approximately located at SJ896346 was opened here on April 3rd, 1848. No further details are known." So there was a shed.

All my SMP track was bought ready-made in boxes of 10 x 1 yard lengths. I didn't relish making up their point kits so stuck to Peco for the points.

[flying scotsman123]

Thanks End2End, that's the second time I've seen reference to an engine shed, are you sure you don't mean the goods shed? As I can't find any evidence of any loco stabling points apart from one other mentioned in passing.


Hmm, SMP is handmade track isn't it?

"The Directory of British Engine Sheds and Principal Locomotive Servicing Points: 2" (ISBN 0-86093-548-5) states on Page 232 that "A 1TS shed, approximately located at SJ896346 was opened here on April 3rd, 1848. No further details are known". So there was a shed.

All my SMP track was bought ready-made in boxes of 10 x 1 yard lengths. I didn't relish making up their point kits so stuck to Peco for the points.

That rings a vague bell Ex-Pat, perhaps it was demolished, maybe around the same time as the signal box was relocated? Looking at notes someone seems to think the signal box was relocated around 1930, but the aerial photo in 1929 shows it in its later place so must be earlier than that. It was originally situated right at the end of the main junction platform just in front of where the tracks split.

[flying scotsman123]

Things have been moving forward slowly, with things happening with coaches in the background. But last week I was on holiday and decided that the signal box would be a nice building to construct that wasn't too big. I had planned to do this for the August competition, but I got itchy. It's amazing what you can achieve on a rainy couple of days in Wales with limited internet access!





The roof is just a metcalfe card roof plonked on at the moment, when I get there I'm planning on using a plasticard base with layers of artists cartridge paper for roof tiles. Most of this has been cut on my cutter, which makes it lovely and accurate. The Window frames especially on Signal boxes are often not much fun but with this they are much easier; just a few more to go. The second picture is the side that faces all the mainlines, the first faces the sidings that run alongside the Stafford island platform. from what I can make out from the single picture I have of the signal box the lever frame looks as if it might be in the middle of the box with a complete walkround.

Things till to do on this include finishing the window frames, finishing off the brickwork with mortar lines etc. roofing plus bargeboards and a set of stairs, which may at least be partly built of brass. There's also some kind of shelf outside the signal box just below the window ledge. Oh, and I need to source a tiny bell for the outside, my photograph specifically says "note the bell" so I can't really ignore it.

[flying scotsman123]

Thought I'd share my exploits so far with the silhouette portrait in making coaches, which is a bit more complicated than just drawing rectangles as with the signal box above. I'm still experimenting with various things but I think I'm nearly there. My bible for the drawings has been North Staffordshire Railway locomotives and rolling stock, which is available for about £3.50. It s a fantastic resource of drawings of NSR rolling stock including a large variety of locos and coaches, plus a few wagons as well. locos and wagons are in 4mm scale, but annoyingly coaches are in 3mm.

Initially I had hoped to scan the drawings in and use the silhouette software's trace function, but invariably that didn't work. So I drew them out myself using my school's drawing package 2Ddesign, which is the bees knees. First I drew the whole coach out, then split it into the different layers. One for the outer beading, one for the main body, and one for the recessed window frames on the doors. That gave me drawings like this:



With 2Ddesign its file extension is .dtd which the sillhouette software can't read. So I export from 2Ddesign as .dxf which the silhouette software can import to create its own .studio files. Complicated innit?

To save time I import all the layers at once, but once you finally get it in the right format you need to split them all off. the easiest way of doing this is to right click on the drawing and "make compound path" (which basically makes every single line a separate entity) then regroup individual components. You can have multiple documents open so I then cut and paste the different layers to different pages as they need different thicknesses of plastic.

Once that's all sorted position the object you're cutting on the page. The cutter comes with a sticky cutting mat. You lay the plastic on the cutting mat then feed the cutting mat into the machine. You can adjust the page size on the software easily, and if there are already cutouts you can draw rectangles on to help position, although you need to delete these before cutting. Then you need to adjust the cut settings. To start with, the blade in the machine is a removable object on a ratchet, which can be turned from 1 - 10. You then plonk it back in its holder and lock it in.

Then on the software you adjust the cut settings. you need to tell it what number the ratchet blade is on. You can also adjust the speed. The lowest is 1cm/second which is what I'd recommend for everything. Thickness ranges from 1-33, this is for making fine adjustments in between the ratchet blade values. You can also tell it to double cut, which I'd also recommend. then you click "send to Silhouette" and it jumps into life! the y-axis is controlled by rollers which physically move the cutting mat and the material, the x-axis is controlled by the blade mechanism sliding along a metal bar.

Once its done you just peel it all off the cutting mat. With beading this is easier said than done; I find it tends to work best if you lift it diagonally from one corner. Then you have your parts all laid out and ready to stick together:



Job done, then it's up to the modeller, doing some modelling! For coaches with tumblehome you just bend it slighty to get roughly the right shape, then using a strong plastic solvent stick it altogether, and it should hold fine if you cut your internal compartment walls the right size as well (remember to take into account the thickness of the plastic - the inner walls will be slightly smaller than the end walls).

So far I've still been messing around with different plastic thicknesses and the like. For beading I'd suggest the thinnest you can get, which is usually 10thou. This cuts quite easily on the cutter; I use the blade on number 7. The rest you want as thick as possible for strength and to prevent warping, but the thickest you can cut is only about 20thou, and even that sometimes need a little help to push out windows afterwards. but two layers of that seems to be alright once internal compartment walls have been put in. These can be as thick as you like; you can physically feed stuff quite a lot thicker into the machine, but it will only score. For windows it's a bit of a bore having to go over each one with a scalpel but for plan shapes like rectangles you can just snap the plastic, so nice and easy.

Things I haven't looked at yet are cutting transfers using crafty computer paper, using the white paper to get the colours right then cutting round the letters to remove the white background, but I'm hoping this will be possible.[/quote]

[mattmay05]

Shall watch this with interest been reading quite a bit about these silhouette cutters, its quite interesting way of building in term of cutting out your own kits plasticard kits, been mainly following progress with peoples builds on RMweb, but they are finding with longer items like coaches but I think yours might be ok, they do tend to warp which I have found when I built one and the sides started to bend over a couple of months which was a shame, so far I'm not sure if it's down to the plasticard or the glues, but some have got some good results. But I still worry over time..

Either way shall be watching with interest.

[flying scotsman123]

Shall watch this with interest been reading quite a bit about these silhouette cutters, its quite interesting way of building in term of cutting out your own kits plasticard kits, been mainly following progress with peoples builds on RMweb, but they are finding with longer items like coaches but I think yours might be ok, they do tend to warp which I have found when I built one and the sides started to bend over a couple of months which was a shame, so far I'm not sure if it's down to the plasticard or the glues, but some have got some good results. But I still worry over time..

Either way shall be watching with interest.

Hi Matt. Yes, warping is an issue, even these four wheel coaches warp a little and I have some bogie coaches in the pipeline which will do so even more. However, because they are mostly non corridorthey cal have full width and height compartment walls very inch or so which I'm hoping should do the job. Also having the patience to use thicker plasticard and being content with the cutter just scoring on the inner layer and finishing it off yourself helps. If I'm still having problems with warping then some even thicker strips of plasticard below and above the window line so no need to cut windows is something I'd consider.

[End2end]

If you know the tumblehome's depth / dimensions could you not make formers to help?
Sorry for the real rough picture but just to give an idea, with the cutters accuracy and thicker material maybe it could help?
Obviously something would still need to be added for strength along the length of the coach, but maybe these formers can serve a dual purpose. Strength and protection against bowing and something to glue the inner walls too, also giving a bit more room for dimensional disparities when cutting the internal walls.

former.JPG (8.9 KiB) Viewed 3285 times

Thanks
End2end

[flying scotsman123]

Hi End2End. That's essentially what the internal compartment walls will do, act as a former and keep bowing to a minimum. I suspect if you cut plastic just to fill the tumblehome it would be so small that it would lose any rigidity when plastic weld was applied to it and just melt. However, thanks for the thought.