3D printing is obviously a 'new' direction in the hobby. A generation ago I remember a friendly discussion with a then quite elderly modeller. I always admired his modelling skills and thus felt the regular urge to discuss the hobby with him. When he was a child his access to modelling was basically old steel nails for axles found on his way to school or old baked beans or sardine tin cans to cut up for bodies.
At an advanced age he ventured away from 'h.o.' modelling towards 'O' gauge and made the most beautiful models from scratch, even though he had the worst case of 'DTs' I had ever seen (he used to own a country pub).
The advent of 3D technology is certainly the 'way of the future' for the small volume manufacturer or the computer skill gifted modeller who wants something unusual to model. I will watch in earnest any developments in this thread.
Tim
CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
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timbologist
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:39 am
- Location: Hazeldene Victoria Australia ( in the bush )
Re: CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
Thank you GWR_fan for the implication I might be a Gifted modeller, but alas I am not gifted. Computer Skills have come from working with and playing with for 40 years, especially the Cad/Cam side of it.
And Again with the modelling been doing that for over 40 years stating in model cars and planes. I still have on my desk a very good selection of micro-strip and plastic sheet that I still regularly use.
Anyway today like to show you a bit about the software used to generate the Code the printer actually uses, this is called G code the same as used in most CNC machines.
The first image is the simulation of the part to be printed, this shows the completed job, which in this case is a new Tudor building tile.
The second image shows how I can switch to show a single layer only so I can check for areas that may have problems.
images 3 and 4 show a couple of the pages where I set up some of the printing parameters for example the nozzle dia and how wide I want the extruded noodle. and the thickness I want the noodle.
But also I can tell the printer on different layers to behave differently.
For instance for bulk filling I can set the the nozzle to 0.24 wide and layer of 0.2 mm, them when I get to the layers where fine detail stars I can set the the noodle width to 0.15 mm and a layer height of 0.05 mm.
Or I can have multiple models on the machine at the same time and print them with individual settings.
Some of the settings can be changed on the printer as the print is progressing IE temperatures of the extruded plastic, the actual flow rate of the plastic, the temperature of the bed and the actual print speed.
this allows fine tuning as the print progresses.
That's enough for today
And Again with the modelling been doing that for over 40 years stating in model cars and planes. I still have on my desk a very good selection of micro-strip and plastic sheet that I still regularly use.
Anyway today like to show you a bit about the software used to generate the Code the printer actually uses, this is called G code the same as used in most CNC machines.
The first image is the simulation of the part to be printed, this shows the completed job, which in this case is a new Tudor building tile.
The second image shows how I can switch to show a single layer only so I can check for areas that may have problems.
images 3 and 4 show a couple of the pages where I set up some of the printing parameters for example the nozzle dia and how wide I want the extruded noodle. and the thickness I want the noodle.
But also I can tell the printer on different layers to behave differently.
For instance for bulk filling I can set the the nozzle to 0.24 wide and layer of 0.2 mm, them when I get to the layers where fine detail stars I can set the the noodle width to 0.15 mm and a layer height of 0.05 mm.
Or I can have multiple models on the machine at the same time and print them with individual settings.
Some of the settings can be changed on the printer as the print is progressing IE temperatures of the extruded plastic, the actual flow rate of the plastic, the temperature of the bed and the actual print speed.
this allows fine tuning as the print progresses.
That's enough for today
- image 1 screen of the simulation of print
- SIMPLIFY3D.jpg (146.21 KiB) Viewed 4795 times
- image 2 single layer
- SIMPLIFY3D-01.jpg (172.87 KiB) Viewed 4795 times
- image 3 extruder page
- SIMPLIFY3D-02.jpg (162.8 KiB) Viewed 4795 times
- image 4 layer page
- SIMPLIFY3D-03.jpg (186.96 KiB) Viewed 4795 times
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timbologist
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:39 am
- Location: Hazeldene Victoria Australia ( in the bush )
Re: CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
Well today shall get deep and meaningful.
Image 1 shows a generic set up of the hot end extruder for a 3D filament printer. this is the same setup I use.
starting at the top you have the entry point for the filament which is feed from a roll, usually 1 kg rolls.
The filament is drawn into the extruder drive between a fine toothed drive wheel and a bearing, the bearing is spring loaded to exert pressure on the filament to ensure it stays in contact with the drive wheel.
this particular drive has a reduction between the stepper motor and the drive wheel. this allows a finer feeding of the filament especially required when using fine nozzles as I use.
if using the direct drive setup you end up with spluttering, which looks ugly.
When it exits the extruder it feeds into the cold end of the hot end ( sounds double dutch ) the top 80 % of the hot end needs to be kept well below the melting point of the filament, or it will get to soft and won't feed to the nozzle end.
The bottom end holds the heater block, thermistor and the nozzle, just above the heater block is a narrow section called the heat break that stems the flow of heat from the bottom end to the top end.
The plastic becomes molten in the area just inside the nozzle exit hole.
As far as My Loco goes have not touched it, as I have been busily designing new tiles for building Tudor Style Buildings which will be available under the ScaleCast brand.
Below is a couple of facebook pages where you can follow what I am doing.
and the third link is where most of my items are available
https://www.facebook.com/Linkamodelsau
https://www.facebook.com/Minibuildings
http://www.linkaonline.co.uk/
Hope all this makes some sense to you, if not please ask questions.
Image 1 shows a generic set up of the hot end extruder for a 3D filament printer. this is the same setup I use.
starting at the top you have the entry point for the filament which is feed from a roll, usually 1 kg rolls.
The filament is drawn into the extruder drive between a fine toothed drive wheel and a bearing, the bearing is spring loaded to exert pressure on the filament to ensure it stays in contact with the drive wheel.
this particular drive has a reduction between the stepper motor and the drive wheel. this allows a finer feeding of the filament especially required when using fine nozzles as I use.
if using the direct drive setup you end up with spluttering, which looks ugly.
When it exits the extruder it feeds into the cold end of the hot end ( sounds double dutch ) the top 80 % of the hot end needs to be kept well below the melting point of the filament, or it will get to soft and won't feed to the nozzle end.
The bottom end holds the heater block, thermistor and the nozzle, just above the heater block is a narrow section called the heat break that stems the flow of heat from the bottom end to the top end.
The plastic becomes molten in the area just inside the nozzle exit hole.
As far as My Loco goes have not touched it, as I have been busily designing new tiles for building Tudor Style Buildings which will be available under the ScaleCast brand.
Below is a couple of facebook pages where you can follow what I am doing.
and the third link is where most of my items are available
https://www.facebook.com/Linkamodelsau
https://www.facebook.com/Minibuildings
http://www.linkaonline.co.uk/
Hope all this makes some sense to you, if not please ask questions.
- image 1 extruder hot end set up
- EXTRUDER-HOTEND-SETUP.png (143.97 KiB) Viewed 4754 times
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timbologist
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:39 am
- Location: Hazeldene Victoria Australia ( in the bush )
Re: CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
Today back to model making,
In the last post mentioned about the Tudor style tiles I am working on for ScaleCast, in the attached images are 4 views of the prototype of a Tudor Shop made from these first tiles.
All the tiles have been printed on my 3D printer, the finish is as is of the printer, giving a rendered effect. To keep in context this is a model of a building that is around 500 years old.
Which means it has lost it's made yesterday look, and when you browse Tudor style buildings some of then look pretty ordinary, having gone all out of shape and the finish looks like it has been re-done may times over the years.
As far as printing goes the first 2.25 mm was printed at a layer height of 0.2mm this is the base area of the tile with a width of 0.2mm. The height from 2.25mm to 3.0mm was printed with a height of 0.1mm and a width of 0.17mm, as the timber sections are 0.5mm and 1mm wide
The timber height is 0.75mm which is 2.25 inches which is probably over scale, but I have less chance of getting the black in the wrong places, As I only painted the front of the timber not down the sides. I may back this of to 0.5 mm on the final patterns. After I get some feedback about how it all looks. so if you have any thoughts about it please share them.
The model is made up from over 40 separate parts, made from ABS plastic and glued together with a mix of Acetone and scrap ABS.
In the last post mentioned about the Tudor style tiles I am working on for ScaleCast, in the attached images are 4 views of the prototype of a Tudor Shop made from these first tiles.
All the tiles have been printed on my 3D printer, the finish is as is of the printer, giving a rendered effect. To keep in context this is a model of a building that is around 500 years old.
Which means it has lost it's made yesterday look, and when you browse Tudor style buildings some of then look pretty ordinary, having gone all out of shape and the finish looks like it has been re-done may times over the years.
As far as printing goes the first 2.25 mm was printed at a layer height of 0.2mm this is the base area of the tile with a width of 0.2mm. The height from 2.25mm to 3.0mm was printed with a height of 0.1mm and a width of 0.17mm, as the timber sections are 0.5mm and 1mm wide
The timber height is 0.75mm which is 2.25 inches which is probably over scale, but I have less chance of getting the black in the wrong places, As I only painted the front of the timber not down the sides. I may back this of to 0.5 mm on the final patterns. After I get some feedback about how it all looks. so if you have any thoughts about it please share them.
The model is made up from over 40 separate parts, made from ABS plastic and glued together with a mix of Acetone and scrap ABS.
- image 1 the Tudor shop front view
- P8280021-800.jpg (511.31 KiB) Viewed 4723 times
- image 2 the Tudor shop back view
- P8280022-800.jpg (520.38 KiB) Viewed 4723 times
- image 3 the Tudor shop another front view
- P8280023-800.jpg (449.24 KiB) Viewed 4723 times
- image 4 the Tudor shop side view
- P8280024-800.jpg (686.77 KiB) Viewed 4723 times
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timbologist
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:39 am
- Location: Hazeldene Victoria Australia ( in the bush )
Re: CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
Sorry but it's been 4 weeks since I have added anything, but life always keeps you busy.
I have been working on finishing this model to get patterns made.
And have made a new improved hot-end for the printer as I was having troubles with the 0.2mm nozzles and the higher temperature.
I am actually working on a 0.1mm nozzle, so probably create more problems to solve.
Referring back to a previous post with the diagram of the extruder setup, what is not shown on that diagram is there is a PTFE liner that is inside the hot-end
that gives a thermal barrier stopping the filament getting to hot before it gets to the nozzle and getting out of shape.
But at 250 C the PTFE gets out of shape.
So the new setup has no PTFE tube but uses Stainless Steel tube instead for the body. And has a heat break as it comes out of the heater block, and reaches the heat sink.
in my case the id at the heat break is 1.85mm and the od is 3mm so the wall thickness is about 0.5mm.
So when running the heater block is 250 C and the heat-sink which is about 2mm away you can hold you finger there all day as it is just warm.
As you can see by the results of this mucking around the effort is wort it.
The next problem to solve is to make my own nozzles as these are currently air brush nozzles, and don't have a very big area at the nozzle outlet,
which is not good for large flat areas. as you need a larger contact area to smooth out the previously laid plastic, a bit like a bulldozer.
But here is the finished Tudor shop I have been working on in its full glory.
except for the roof which is cast in plaster using Linka moulds the rest is made on the 3D printer.
Each part of the walls are made out of separate tiles glued together.
The files for the patterns to make the moulds from have been sent to Shapeways to be printed, so the moulds can be produced.
The tiles are then cast in plaster very much the same as the Linka moulds, but have no fingers at the joints just nice straight edges.
The chimneys and ridging will be available in plastic as will the window frames
cheers for now
I'll post images of the mould layouts and the patterns in the next post.
I have been working on finishing this model to get patterns made.
And have made a new improved hot-end for the printer as I was having troubles with the 0.2mm nozzles and the higher temperature.
I am actually working on a 0.1mm nozzle, so probably create more problems to solve.
Referring back to a previous post with the diagram of the extruder setup, what is not shown on that diagram is there is a PTFE liner that is inside the hot-end
that gives a thermal barrier stopping the filament getting to hot before it gets to the nozzle and getting out of shape.
But at 250 C the PTFE gets out of shape.
So the new setup has no PTFE tube but uses Stainless Steel tube instead for the body. And has a heat break as it comes out of the heater block, and reaches the heat sink.
in my case the id at the heat break is 1.85mm and the od is 3mm so the wall thickness is about 0.5mm.
So when running the heater block is 250 C and the heat-sink which is about 2mm away you can hold you finger there all day as it is just warm.
As you can see by the results of this mucking around the effort is wort it.
The next problem to solve is to make my own nozzles as these are currently air brush nozzles, and don't have a very big area at the nozzle outlet,
which is not good for large flat areas. as you need a larger contact area to smooth out the previously laid plastic, a bit like a bulldozer.
But here is the finished Tudor shop I have been working on in its full glory.
except for the roof which is cast in plaster using Linka moulds the rest is made on the 3D printer.
Each part of the walls are made out of separate tiles glued together.
The files for the patterns to make the moulds from have been sent to Shapeways to be printed, so the moulds can be produced.
The tiles are then cast in plaster very much the same as the Linka moulds, but have no fingers at the joints just nice straight edges.
The chimneys and ridging will be available in plastic as will the window frames
cheers for now
I'll post images of the mould layouts and the patterns in the next post.
- TUDOR SHOP
- P9290032.JPG (172.86 KiB) Viewed 4621 times
- TUDOR SHOP
- P9290033.JPG (167.11 KiB) Viewed 4621 times
- TUDOR SHOP
- P9290034.JPG (164.37 KiB) Viewed 4621 times
- TUDOR CHIMNEY POT
- P9290035.JPG (158.9 KiB) Viewed 4621 times
- P9290036.JPG (158.87 KiB) Viewed 4621 times
Re: CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
Wow - that's great - in particular the chimney pots and the ridge on the roof.
Re: CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
I second that. Excellent!!!skyblue wrote:Wow - that's great - in particular the chimney pots and the ridge on the roof.
Glencairn
To the world you are someone. To someone you are their world.
I Cannot Afford the Luxury of a Negative Thought
I Cannot Afford the Luxury of a Negative Thought
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timbologist
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:39 am
- Location: Hazeldene Victoria Australia ( in the bush )
Re: CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
Firstly thank you to Glencairn and skyblue for your comments good to see there are not just Lurkers out there.
A bit of topic more of a ready to run repair.
I just bought on Ebay a Hornby Coronation Class the City of Bristol which had a broken Loco to tender hook as seen in picture 1.
I tried the easy way out and put another pony truck under it ( it's the same as that under the old tender drive Scotsman )
But the tender hit the Loco on the Tight radius on my inner most track.
So I better fix the broken one and add a bit to the length about 1/8" or 3.25mm.
Picture 3 truck with the new hook ready to install.
Pictures 4 and 5 show the repaired pony truck ready to fit back to the Loco
And it works perfectly and does not hit anymore.
The printer and the cad package have over the last 10 months become an essential part of my tool box.
not only for designing and manufacturing new models for my layout, but repairing just about anything.
I don;t know what I did without it.
A bit of topic more of a ready to run repair.
I just bought on Ebay a Hornby Coronation Class the City of Bristol which had a broken Loco to tender hook as seen in picture 1.
I tried the easy way out and put another pony truck under it ( it's the same as that under the old tender drive Scotsman )
But the tender hit the Loco on the Tight radius on my inner most track.
So I better fix the broken one and add a bit to the length about 1/8" or 3.25mm.
Picture 3 truck with the new hook ready to install.
Pictures 4 and 5 show the repaired pony truck ready to fit back to the Loco
And it works perfectly and does not hit anymore.
The printer and the cad package have over the last 10 months become an essential part of my tool box.
not only for designing and manufacturing new models for my layout, but repairing just about anything.
I don;t know what I did without it.
- picture 1
City of Bristol broken hook - PA040038.JPG (134.67 KiB) Viewed 4578 times
- picture 2
cad drawing of new hook - TENDER-HOOK.jpg (128.16 KiB) Viewed 4578 times
- picture 3
new hook next to pony truck - PA040040.JPG (156.77 KiB) Viewed 4578 times
- picture 4
repaired truck - PA050041.JPG (138.31 KiB) Viewed 4578 times
- picture 5
repaired truck - PA050042.JPG (136.02 KiB) Viewed 4578 times
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flying scotsman123
- Posts: 2233
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:29 pm
- Location: err, down there round the corner... not that one!!!
Re: CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
Hi, great work, apologies if you've mentioned this, but what printer and software are you using? It all looks great anyway, I'd love to have a go at 3D printing, but the cost is still a little to prohibitive for me at the moment, I'm only 15 after all! Hopefully as I grow older prices will come down - Please!
Impressive stuff, but the fact you use it to make things like new tender hooks really does show that it can solve anything really.
Impressive stuff, but the fact you use it to make things like new tender hooks really does show that it can solve anything really.
Re: CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
The modeling is positively inspired - glad you are not being put off by the predominance of lurkers - I wonder what they look like?
3D printed items look fragile - are they?
3D printed items look fragile - are they?
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timbologist
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:39 am
- Location: Hazeldene Victoria Australia ( in the bush )
Re: CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
Lurkers are a strange breed, I have no idea what one looks like.ParkeNd wrote:The modeling is positively inspired - glad you are not being put off by the predominance of lurkers - I wonder what they look like?
3D printed items look fragile - are they?
The 3d printed models are fairly strong, in there own right, but compared to something that is injection moulded out of the same material there not as strong.
Because injection moulded the material is one liquid mass, where as the 3d printed is a hot layer placed on top of a colder layer, ( liquid over solid ) so you rely on
the penetration into the previous layer and the last sausage you laid.
So they are plenty strong enough for model making, and always pass the drop test with flying colours.
Also I'm glad the modelling is inspirational.
The cad software is called Rhinoceros 3D, the software to convert the model to the G Code for the printer to use is called Simplify 3Dflying scotsman123 wrote:Hi, great work, apologies if you've mentioned this, but what printer and software are you using? It all looks great anyway, I'd love to have a go at 3D printing, but the cost is still a little to prohibitive for me at the moment, I'm only 15 after all! Hopefully as I grow older prices will come down - Please!
Impressive stuff, but the fact you use it to make things like new tender hooks really does show that it can solve anything really.
And the printer is called a Hadron, which is just the bare printer frame, the electronics are the Arduino/Ramps set-up the Extruder is a modified Wades and the Hot-end is my own design.
I think you can print most things, if you can draw it you can print it.
My printer is an essential part of my modelling arsenal.
And best thing of all is you can solve the problem 24 hours a day without leaving the comfort of your house.
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timbologist
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:39 am
- Location: Hazeldene Victoria Australia ( in the bush )
Re: CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
Hi all, well at the week end did a bit of loco bashing, which involved a little bit of 3D printing.
In Australia they have just recently released the Great British Locomotive Series, with those plastic models on a display track.
Being a gluten for punishment ended up buying 6 of number 1 and 3 of number 2, well at A$5.95 for the first and A$9.95 for the second, why not.
The attached photo's show the results of the first one I have attacked, the bodies appear to be a very good copy of the Hornby model, a few minor differences.
Only the rivet counters would worry about. I have major thing I am going to fix and that is the leading truck needs to go forward 3mm and the front axle needs to be
another 6 mm forward of the rear axle, as you can see looks a bit odd.
Before you ask the chassis is from a Hornby A3 Gordon from the Thomas range.
And before you say it's all wrong then look at the very early Hornby A3's and Coronation's they use the same loco chassis for both and the early Coronations are about 5/16" shorter.
So if its good enough for Hornby and modellers of years ago it's good enough for me!!!!!!
The enjoyment in this hobby is doing what you want and using your own imagination not what the so called experts say you should or should not do.
So let yourself only be limited by your own imagination and your own fulfillment and not that of others.
In Australia they have just recently released the Great British Locomotive Series, with those plastic models on a display track.
Being a gluten for punishment ended up buying 6 of number 1 and 3 of number 2, well at A$5.95 for the first and A$9.95 for the second, why not.
The attached photo's show the results of the first one I have attacked, the bodies appear to be a very good copy of the Hornby model, a few minor differences.
Only the rivet counters would worry about. I have major thing I am going to fix and that is the leading truck needs to go forward 3mm and the front axle needs to be
another 6 mm forward of the rear axle, as you can see looks a bit odd.
Before you ask the chassis is from a Hornby A3 Gordon from the Thomas range.
And before you say it's all wrong then look at the very early Hornby A3's and Coronation's they use the same loco chassis for both and the early Coronations are about 5/16" shorter.
So if its good enough for Hornby and modellers of years ago it's good enough for me!!!!!!
The enjoyment in this hobby is doing what you want and using your own imagination not what the so called experts say you should or should not do.
So let yourself only be limited by your own imagination and your own fulfillment and not that of others.
- CORONATION MOUNTINGS
- PA140047.JPG (158.04 KiB) Viewed 4490 times
- CORONATION REAR MOUNTING
- PA140045.JPG (138.91 KiB) Viewed 4490 times
- CORONATION FRONT MOUNTING
- PA140046.JPG (155.13 KiB) Viewed 4490 times
- CORONATION LOCO
- PA140048.JPG (170.08 KiB) Viewed 4490 times
- CORONATION TENDER
- PA140049.JPG (170.27 KiB) Viewed 4490 times
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timbologist
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:39 am
- Location: Hazeldene Victoria Australia ( in the bush )
Re: CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
Hi all
Well finally finished the second Tudor building, made from mostly 3D printed components.
The roofs are Linka R2 roof tiles cast in plaster and the chimney and the brick side walls are Linka B1 tiles cast in plaster,
The gutters are formed foil and the down pipes are copper wire, All the rest is printed in ABS plastic.
More about the availability of the moulds and other products to produce these models can be found at the below address
http://www.linkaonline.co.uk/store/c26/ ... ducts.html
Currently working on a second motorization of one of the Magazine Loco's the first one Mallard, so will have details of that and what I needed to print to get it together
That's all for now
Well finally finished the second Tudor building, made from mostly 3D printed components.
The roofs are Linka R2 roof tiles cast in plaster and the chimney and the brick side walls are Linka B1 tiles cast in plaster,
The gutters are formed foil and the down pipes are copper wire, All the rest is printed in ABS plastic.
More about the availability of the moulds and other products to produce these models can be found at the below address
http://www.linkaonline.co.uk/store/c26/ ... ducts.html
Currently working on a second motorization of one of the Magazine Loco's the first one Mallard, so will have details of that and what I needed to print to get it together
That's all for now
- Front
- PA210107.JPG (163.5 KiB) Viewed 4462 times
- right
- PA210108.JPG (162.5 KiB) Viewed 4462 times
- back
- PA210109.JPG (168.13 KiB) Viewed 4462 times
- left
- PA210110.JPG (164.33 KiB) Viewed 4462 times
- front bricks
- PA210114.JPG (168.12 KiB) Viewed 4462 times
Re: CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
That is some amazing work, really show the potential for 3d modelling.
If you need suggestions for a commercial loco kit, I'd suggest 0-4-2 Lion, as featured in The Titfield Thunderbolt. The original kit has been out of production for many years and prices top £200 when they do become available now.
(I'd love one myself)
If you need suggestions for a commercial loco kit, I'd suggest 0-4-2 Lion, as featured in The Titfield Thunderbolt. The original kit has been out of production for many years and prices top £200 when they do become available now.
(I'd love one myself)-
End2end
- Posts: 6010
- Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
- Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end
Re: CAD 3D PRINTING MODEL MAKING
Lurking learner linka modeller reporting for duty. 
Love the Tudor shop and house.Very elaborate, great stuff!
As for 3d printing? Way out of my league and frame of reference lol
Thanks
End2end
Love the Tudor shop and house.Very elaborate, great stuff!
As for 3d printing? Way out of my league and frame of reference lol
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
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St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread
Welcome
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread