Maes Glas Riverside - A shunting Puzzle

[aleopardstail]

very much pondering trying them, thinking freight stuff initially (eventually coaches for rake end, mid rake won't be split), and really only freight that will be shunted

is there a decent "starter set" for the things you would recommend? thinking to avoid the "oh, so I need that as well?" moment when trying to convert a few wagons and a loco, locos mostly non-NEM, wagons a bit of a mix

[Dad-1]

Hi aleopardstail,

Kadees - They can bite the hand that buys them !!
But if you get them working perfectly then they really do help running around and stock
movement "Hands Free". I was amazed last weekend at Axminster how many casual followers
are blown away by working a hands free shunting puzzle.

I suppose I'm quite experienced with them now, but I'll share some observations.
Magnets : Between the rails work fine without too many problems from magnetic creep.
Underboard magnets are difficult to set up because their depth below the track needs a
more powerful pull. That creates a magnetic creep that makes MOST British outline wagons
move by themselves and causes trains to separate. The reason is that MOST wagons have
magnetic wheels & axles, the worst are AG wheels that come/came with Parkside wagon
kits, these have plastic wheel centres with highly magnetic steel tyres.
A rake of coaches is not quite so sensitive to creep due to mass and drag, 3 coaches will
offer a drag from 24 wheels. A single wagon 4 ...... So your idea of working freight with just
occasional Kadees is fine unless you want to work them individually.
Electro magnets - I have one on a test board, but simply too much trouble.

They are in my opinion VERY EXPENSIVE, currently over £10 a pack of 4, without adding on
carriage charges. A good reason to approach gently !! Although I've spent in excess of £200 !!

Geoff T.

[glencairn]

My American railroad colleagues all use Kadees.

Glencairn

[Dad-1]

Ahh, leopardstail,

Non NEM locos will mean that you'll have to find a way to attach, often difficult and
something I've mostly avoided. Getting the right height is VERY important.

I have a mix of wagons with Kadees, from Wrenn, Triang, Early Hornby with wide metal
couplers, but mostly kit built. Wherever possible I use the Peco (PA34) NEM dove-tail mountings.
Sand & adjust fitting location to match the height of the best most consistent Bachmann stock
I have and it suits my Kadees.

I keep to NEM types and use all 4 lengths, mostly the #18, but things like the Ruston DS48's need
the short #17 and some need the longer types.
I have never tried the Draught Box type, is it #5 ?? I was told they are actually better working, but
probably not to fix and anyway I want to be able to switch back to my Bachmann short tension-lock
option that the majority of my stock still has.

Geoff T.

[aleopardstail]

food for thought all cheers

[Dad-1]

Did some work outdoors.
All 4 of my bufferstop kits were ready to install, even if one was still unpainted.
The location has to be very tightly controlled so many checks were made and in
the end I decided to use the rail beam version of the short GWR type close to my
platform and the wooden beam outside that. The kit gives you an option so why not
try both !!
These kits are white metal and although I've built one that was insulated in this use
I really wasn't going to need the rails live as there should always be a wagon there !!

I used a slitting disc to cut my final marked locations. I measured the cuts out of interest
and although the photo shows a potentially wider gap it was actually just under 1.0 mm.
To match up some final adjustment was made by shortening the white metal rails



Both now in place.



When building the magnets are the deciding factor on track lengths and IF I'd stuck the
magnets closer to the buffer end there would be less space behind them. There was
flexibility until my magnets were in.



Still a long way to go at my speed !!

Geoff T.

[Dad-1]

All 4 stops now in place.



Point system, frog switching to sort then some scenery, or at the
very least some ballast.

Geoff T.

[Dad-1]

A small step forward.
All the magnets located & fixed with ballast going over to hide them.
All wires attached to tie-bars (sleeper) with the wires in tubes now hidden in the groundworks.



I still have to arrange the sliding switches that will (I hope) operate the points and switch frog polarity.

I decided to finish weathering on the last 6 of my 13 ton hopper wagons. I'm going to add coal to all 10
I have made up. I did wonder about making a few more, but the price !! First kits bought at £13, then
some at £15, now I see recommended retail is in the £20 bracket with Rails the best price. I think I can
do without more !!



Geoff T.

[Dad-1]

Nothing since August, It was sitting in my shed looking abandoned - But NOT forgotten.
I have brought indoors for the winter and now with frog switching in I've been doing some
running tests

https://youtu.be/Z55RfSb_OcI

I will now proceed with ballasting, then sort out exactly how I'll get the Wire-in-tube changing set-up ????
That is still an unknown !!

Geoff T.

[Lofty]

I have brought indoors for the winter and now with frog switching in I've been doing some
running tests

That’s an impressive crawl for such a little loco

[Dad-1]

Hi There Lofty,

Pleased you dropped in.

My testing is finding the odd problem. One check-rail is a bit 'tight' and
although a DS48 has no problems a J94 tends to derail due to the longer
0-6-0 wheelbase. Soldering iron needed !!

Then the typical Kadee nightmare. Magnetic creep more pronounced because
code 75 & fine copper-clad sleepers take my stock nearer the magnets. There
would be no problem when/if I can find some non-magnetic metal axle sets.

Geoff T.

[Bigmet]

...a J94 tends to derail due to the longer 0-6-0 wheelbase. Soldering iron needed !!...

Or possibly not. It's over 20 years ago a friend sent me a pair of Hornby J94's, one of which ran smoothly and quietly and wouldn't negotiate points reliably and slowed noticeably on curves below 24" radius; the other which made grindy noises and was cogging at slow speed, but would go through any point. This was to challenge my claim that any mechanism can be worked up to match the best example: the deal was make the smooth running one perform on points as well as the grindy example, and I could keep the latter if I made it run as quietly as the better runner.

The curve intolerant example was constrained by slightly over gauge wheelsets, (easily corrected) combined with the brake shoes being a bit lumpen and constraining side play by contact with the flanges, filed to give more clearance to the wheelsets it had no trouble at all. (The other one was faults in the plastic mouldings in which the motor and gear train is located: the worm was hard on the pinion, and there was a twist in the gear train; realigned all was well, and I still have it, plating worn off the tyres down to the brass, still running well.)

[Dad-1]

Hi Bigmet,

A shame not everyone reads this thread, but there is some interesting technical stuff,
like your fixes. So many little secrets !!

My problem really will need the soldering iron out, but it has brought to the fore something
of the Back-to Back myth we bandy about.
We all say that your back to back should be 14.50 mm, but that's NOT strictly true. Where
it is fine for most RTR track there are exceptions. Once Bachmann used to have 14.40 as their
standard setting which in many instances where set-track points are being used is probably
better than 14.50 and certainly better where even recent manufacture Dapol wheels are used.

I have 2 solid brass back to back gauges, one at 14.50, the other at 14.35. Is it really necessary
to have 2, for just a 0.15 mm difference ? No, but it might help.

My current problem I thought was a check rail that should be at 1.25 mm, and is barely 1.0 mm.
That alone wouldn't be enough, but careful checking of the switch rails in the curve I find they are
at just 16.00 mm. This is where I confirmed my view on back to back measurements. A loose
Hornby wheel set at 16.50 mm will run through the 'tight' curve with some free movement. While
a Dapol wheel set with the same back to back setting will be squeezed out of the track. Re-set
to 14.35 it can just go through, but with zero free movement. Why ? Very simple the Hornby flanges
are somewhat thinner. This could be the reason why I have read over the years that Dapol wheels
give unreliable running. I have no problems in that regard so long as each piece of rolling stock has
a level chassis (Zero opposite corner to corner rocking). Because the Dapol wheels do have a much
lower flange this rocking can take a flange to rail head height, below a safe limit. I suggest if you
have a rocker, use Hornby wheel sets, the deeper flange will save a lot of trouble.

I used 14.35 on one shunting layout where old, slightly worn set-track points were used. The slightly
worn check rails allowed wider set B2B wheels to occasionally catch on the frog's common crossing
point resulting in either a noise & a jump, or derailing.

Fixes are often not a simple as you may think. At club I often get asked why my stock is so reliable.
Honestly ? Excessive testing, analysing 'Why' and then finding an answer. More often couplers than
wheel set problems !! But that's another story !!.

Geoff T.