New layout

[Stokestation12]

So I've got 7 mk3 intercity coaches in the blue livery from the 80s.

Would there be any chance that they would have been around still by say 1996 or 1997?
I was debating on having them in a rake but wasn't sure if they would all have been repainted into swallow or even virgin by that point.

[aleopardstail]

can probably justify them running in BR colours, repainting was a process that took a while, maybe a rake got delayed

[Stokestation12]

Little pic of the 4 line progress.
Currently have the inner loop fully laid out.
The next inner loop is about 50% complete.
The other 2 lines are some way off yet with just a few bits of track as placeholders.

Inner track is 4th radius curves. Class 47 with x6 mk2s handles the curves easily. Will be testing with a slightly longer rake of mk3s.

In terms of track spacing, I have the fiddle yard set to 51mm but as the tracks go into the curves, they go into set track gauge distance of 67mm and remain at that distance through the station.




Current rake plans:
Track 1 - inner:
Class 47 Intercity with x6 mk2s
Class 86, x7 mk3s, mk1
Sprinters (will be able to pull into terminus or go around the loops, will have sidings in fiddle yard)

Track 2
Class 58 "coal sector", x20 HEA hoppers
Class 37, mix of mk1s and guvs (parcel rake)


Track 3
Class 37 "mainline bp", x6 TEA BP tankers, x10 TTA bp tankers
Class 56, speedlink/railfreight rake

Track 4 - outer:
Class 90, x10 mk4s, dvt
Class 86, x8 mk3s, dvt


If I can fit another siding on track 3, will have a class 90 with x10 container wagons.

[Stokestation12]

3 lines set up and moving. Just the fourth and its done.

[Stokestation12]

Got an hour earlier, outer loop is now just short of a few pieces of straight and it's done.
Soon will begin testing

[Mountain]

Roof looks nice. Love the tankers. Think I have about nine of the things left myself.

[Stokestation12]

Roof looks nice. Love the tankers. Think I have about nine of the things left myself.

I really like the BP green TEA tankers but they're hard to get hold of now. Was hoping to get a few more to fill up the rake. The bachmann ones are a bit pricey so I've always gone for the Hornby but they're a bit like hens teeth.

[Mountain]

Roof looks nice. Love the tankers. Think I have about nine of the things left myself.

I really like the BP green TEA tankers but they're hard to get hold of now. Was hoping to get a few more to fill up the rake. The bachmann ones are a bit pricey so I've always gone for the Hornby but they're a bit like hens teeth.

That has always been a problem in 00. By the time one has saved up the money and goes to try and buy them, one may have to search the country to try and find enough to make a rake!
I don't understand why the manufacturers don't sell less detailed budget versions at cheaper prices and sell them in packs of ten or twelve so one can make a rake? Both the leading manufacturers have made budget versions of their wagons in past trainsets, using cheaper plastics or other cost cutting measures of the standard versions of the same wagons. Why can't we see this option being offered in bulk packs such as ten 16T B.R. grey mineral wagons and things like that? Even if they had plastic wheels they would sell. (There would also be a run on people buying metal wheels at a later date to add some future sales!)

My rake of 100T tankers is one of the last that Lima produced. They are Fina tankers in black, and they have just the right weight to them so they behave nicely! I preferred the Lima bogie tankers to the Hornby ones just for this reason, though Hornby tankers can be massively improved with heavy metal wheels and possibly brass top hat bearings if one wants to go down that route. (Don't really need the bearings, but they do improve running even further assuming one has set the bearings in right. The key is to drill holes for the bearings from the outside and fit the bearings in with the wheels from the inside (I found on old Triang hard plastic bogies, one can put bearings in "Lose" (As in not glued) and the lose bearings with the heavy metal wheels allow the wheels to keep turning for ages when spun before they stop! Though with most plastic bogies, maybe better to set them into position without them being lose incase the bearing spins too much and wears away the plastic. One then applies filler to the outside of the axleboxes and paints. Brass bearings do allow for nicer running, but the first upgrade will be some nice heavy metal wheels. Shame Romford are no longer available, but Hornby metal wheels are actually good. Not quite as heavy as old Romfords, but they are actually nice wheels. I am looking forward to Dapol, to see if they have got their lovely wheel making machine up and running, though I assume their first use will be for their own models before thsy will sell wheels as spares? But it will be good when they will be able to make their own metal wheels!

With my 0-16.5 homemade waggons, I will use whatever wheels I have! I don't mind plastic as long as they work. Yes, metal is better, so is my first choice, but plastic is ok by me if it works! (Getting the right size wheels is more important as some of my waggons need 10.5mm wheels of smaller which are not so easy to find, though with my H-chassis, I use 12.5mm wheels which are the most common size, so are easy to find. I think the difference is in 00 is one has lengthy heavy trains of wagons to move so metal wheels are preferred, while in narrow gauge, trains can be of shorter waggons so it is usually less of an issue. (I have at least three real "Heavyweight" little locos for pulling heavy trains if needed. Some locos I have won't pull too much... Is just like the prototypes where one selects ones loco roster to the trains needed to be pulled...)

[aleopardstail]

very telling really, how many review videos have you seen with extreme closeups of excellent levels of detail that is at normal viewing distances largely impossible to see.

there is a market for "good enough" models, new tool stuff, that can have a range of real liveries applied designed specifically for the "three foot" test, i.e. look good enough at three foot. focus on what makes a rake good, kinematic couplings for close running, good bearings for free rolling, suitable weight. but maybe accept a plain invisible underframe for example.

for freight stock it should focus on a good paint finish, no obvious moulding artefacts but aiming for a price where buying them in triples isn't bank breaking, maybe have the super detailed as well but in effect aim for the hornby Railroad type market but with new tool designed to sell in higher volumes through lower prices.

[Bigmet]

...there is a market for "good enough" models, new tool stuff, that can have a range of real liveries applied designed specifically for the "three foot" test...

Especially for those of us with large numbers of kit and scratch built wagons. As the late Iain Rice often suggested, a consistent standard on a layout helps 'sell' the appearance as realistic. (A few premium models are acceptable to represent the likes of the very spiffy EE type 5 prototype Deltic, which genuinely looked like a 'Rolls-Royce' class locomotive; or Pullman cars, washed after the down journey, so that they were sparkling as the clientele returned for the up service home.)

[Phred]

I have a few highly detailed things which seldom come out of the glass cabinet because, to be honest, I'm nervous about breaking something off them. They look great but they're just not as enjoyable to play with as the less detailed stock which trundles around the layout on a regular basis.

[Stokestation12]

4 tracks running!

[Bigmet]

4 tracks running!

The picture suggests four running, one more was running, now crashing?

Whatever, the layout is coming on nicely.

I have a few highly detailed things which seldom come out of the glass cabinet because, to be honest, I'm nervous about breaking something off them. They look great but they're just not as enjoyable to play with as the less detailed stock which trundles around the layout on a regular basis.

Physical handling causes most loss of detail parts. Keeping them on the layout is the better option in my experience.

[Mountain]

And just to answer a question before about older liveries, one did see a mix ofnolder and newer liveries. What one did not see in regards to HST's is a whole HST in one complete livery sitting next to a whole HST of a whole other livery UNLESS in later days under privatization there were two different companies OR they purposly did it as a photoshoot.
The common practice that I saw in the Western region was that when a new livery came in, they would repaint them one vehicle at a time, and I noticed the HST sets in mixed colours for a long time...
I also noticd that the first innthe formation to be painted in the new livery would be one of the powercars... Then the other power car... Then the buffet car Then came one by one the other coaches. They were always done one at a time so ran inmixed livery for a few years... I also noticed that the very last HST to be completely painted as a set never did get to have its full livery, as they would find a new livery and start the process again! (This may become the only HST set to start off entirely painted in the new livery which was done for the promotional photoshoot). They did have most HST's in complete livery for a while just before they caught up with the last few...So what I say is that model either a complete modern livery or a mix between what new livery was out andnthe older livery, but on mixed livery sets, the mix in the Western Region was that the power cars would always be in the new livery first and then the buffet cars... As the depots painting them had a system where one spare freshly painted power car or coach would be swapped into the formation so the coach or power car that needed to be painted could be taken out so it could be painted. This ensured the maximum available HST sets were always available in service. Hope this helps?

(I did once see a layout on the front page of a model railway magazine showing three complete HST's each one being in an entirely different livery (B.R. blue, BR executive grey, and BR Swallow grey). The three like that as complete sets may look nice, but in reality never happened until after private companies took over the HST's and happened to call in to a busy shared station at the same time. (We would see a Virgin HST next to a Great Western HST in Swansea for a year or two atound 2004 ish, and was interesting, as under BR, all the Western Region sets were running a seven car formation with the passenger half of the buffet car pointing towards the standard class. First Great western HST's always ran eight car formations with the buffets turned so the half of the buffet coach with the seating would be towards the first class accomedation. I often puzzled where they had the extra coaches from, and then when Virgin decided to run down to Swansea for a couple of years, their HST's were in six car sets, and most of them were mixed liveries right back to the executive livery, sonthey were pretty slow to do repaints. I can't remember which way their buffet cars ran. I did notice that FGW happened to be onntop of their game when it came to their loco upgrades and when their sets were 25 year old, they fitted them with new GM engines. Virgin was way behind and we saw rakes of very dirty ex.Virgin HST powercars in a right state, some with smashed windows etc, being towed on the main line towards the Swansea Landore depot where they completely did them up with those brand new engines fitted, and they came out in FGW livery looking like completely different new vehicles as they had had everything done to them. It was said they had massive EU grants to do these up with "Enviromentally friendly" GM engines to last another 25 years.. This was around 2006-2007. It came as a complete shock when around 10 years on, they were scrapping them to comply with new UK regulations, as it was too costly to alter them all to run with power operated doors). Seemed such a waste of taxpayers money to be honest. They had door bolts. Why couldn't the government have waited until they came to the end of their working lives before forcing in the regulation? They already had those door bolt improvements and all new trains had to be built to the new standards... Some of which passengers could just pull the power operated doors open while in service with their fingers if they wanted such as the otherwize excellent class 150's. (Once told a guy not to but his fingers in the rubber of the doors as the train will stop if it senses the doors have parted, and he said he could not part those doors... I said it was possible and not to try... Went on with my duties and the train came to a stop with the rather embarissed guy who didn't believe me was apologizing as he thought it wasn't possible! Peoples curiosity!) Why I called 150's excellent, is of all the DMU's made during the late 80's onwards, they had the best reliability record of the lot, which is why they kept them in service for so long. They just went on and on and on! Rather like owning a Wrenn class 08 shunter!

[Stokestation12]

4 tracks running!

The picture suggests four running, one more was running, now crashing?

Whatever, the layout is coming on nicely.

I have a few...

the terminus hasn't been finished yet, but it certainly does look like I need to bring the crane in to fix the mess!!!



I've had a look at some cross era hst formations; I will be going with a virgin livery class 43 loco/dummy with intercity mk3s, as suggested by Mountain. I may source 1 or 2 virgin mk3s to finish the rake if the power car is able to haul more than the 5 swallow coaches I have set aside for it.

I have also found a virgin livery class 90, which I am considering putting at the front of a new 90/mk4/dvt rake for the outer loop.

Ahh the possibilities!



I've decided to sell the rake of HAA hoppers as I don't want to upgrade to EWS hoppers and I am already a bit freight heavy.