New layout

Any questions about designing a model railway layout or problems with track work.
Stokestation12
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Re: New layout

Post by Stokestation12 »

Mountain wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 8:23 pm Go easy about adding oil as it sounds more like the issue is cog alignment spring or something like that, or the non-powered bogie or contact on that side. On older Hornby models the contact runs through the pair of wheels on the non-powered bogie and through the wire to the motor. The axles themselves can pick up dirt and need cleaning (Or the metal part of the bogie frame).

I am not sure about todays Railroad style designs, but from what I know, older designs (Ringfield) will all be alone the lines mentioned above. I believe the class 90's had a ringfield motor bogie?
Is far too easy to over oil the motor. Mind you, they do squeel if dry. Is a very fine line which I am wondering if graphite would work better?
Moror communtators could sometimes meed a clean as can the wheels...

Something I noticed was that when adding a little pressure on to of the loco, it wouldn't budge until I pressed over the pickup bogie ( this was with the shell removed). I've added a bit of liquid lead in the shell that will sit behind the cab, over the bogie. Will test tomorrow.
The motor actually doesn't sound bad when it does move with no squeaking or squealing; will hold off the oil for now.
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Mountain
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Re: New layout

Post by Mountain »

Seems like to me that the axles of the non-powered bogie need a wipe over and clean? I have never had a class 90 but seem to remember that they are lime most older Hornby diesels but had their power bogies at the front instead? (Have a vague memory of someone showing this somewhere?)
Anyway. The non-powered bogie metal part that the wheels sit in may also need a clean, as sometimes if these have been oiled, they run fine at first, but then fine dust and dirt gets attracted to the oil and it forms a fine insulating paste on the axles. It does not take a lot to cause issues. This would be my first area to check. Be aware the wheels need to go the right way round when putting it back together.
Stokestation12
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Re: New layout

Post by Stokestation12 »

Mountain wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2024 1:49 pm Seems like to me that the axles of the non-powered bogie need a wipe over and clean? I have never had a class 90 but seem to remember that they are lime most older Hornby diesels but had their power bogies at the front instead? (Have a vague memory of someone showing this somewhere?)
Anyway. The non-powered bogie metal part that the wheels sit in may also need a clean, as sometimes if these have been oiled, they run fine at first, but then fine dust and dirt gets attracted to the oil and it forms a fine insulating paste on the axles. It does not take a lot to cause issues. This would be my first area to check. Be aware the wheels need to go the right way round when putting it back together.

Spent a while on it today and you were spot on. Cleaned the wheels and axles and now runs again.
I am also now 2 or 3 peco flexi tracks away from having the fiddle yard completed.
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Mountain
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Re: New layout

Post by Mountain »

Am glad it works!

So things are going well...
Stokestation12
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Re: New layout

Post by Stokestation12 »

Mountain wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2024 8:03 pm Am glad it works!

So things are going well...

They are!
I've got a bit of track left which will be added to the last fiddle yard siding, tonight hopefully. Then I will be able to see if I've got enough to finish it or if I need a trip to the model shop.
The terminus line is laid out ready to pin down and power.

All I need is time!
Peterm
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Re: New layout

Post by Peterm »

"All I need is time." When I retired I thought I'd be able to do what I wanted, when I wanted. Ha ha ha ha.
Pete.
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Mountain
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Re: New layout

Post by Mountain »

Peterm wrote: Wed Oct 02, 2024 12:12 am "All I need is time." When I retired I thought I'd be able to do what I wanted, when I wanted. Ha ha ha ha.
Have you noticed how time these days seems to just zoom past?

When I remember how much I used to do in a day. I don't think I do that much in a month and then I consider it too much to cope!
How did I do what I used to do in the past?
And I am not really that old...
Peterm
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Re: New layout

Post by Peterm »

My late father said to me years ago that the older you get, the faster the years go by. He got that one right.
Pete.
Bigmet
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Re: New layout

Post by Bigmet »

Peterm wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2024 12:17 am My late father said to me years ago that the older you get, the faster the years go by. He got that one right.
I have been trying to convince a friend of this, specifically in respect of retirement. When you step off the non stop rollercoaster of any significant form of gainful activity, just a few months later you are pedalling a bike rather than driving a supercar (other analogies available). I have seen this happen with so many really able people, it is very striking how few maintain the pace once the urgency of 'action this day', 'decision now', 'justify continuation or cancel', and all the other jargon for 'get it done already' ceases. (I can still switch it back on, but both myself and my wife would rather I didn't.)

I am pretty convinced that's what lies behind this perception of time going faster with age. Where you once packed in loads of actions a day, now it's half a dozen and none of them pressing, unless the chip pan is on fire or someone has fallen down the stairs... So you end up with 'I only got half a dozen things done - and the day has 'flown by'...
Dad-1
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Re: New layout

Post by Dad-1 »

Nice one Bigmet,
Theory & practice don't go together in later life.
I am always busy though - the pretext of so with too many things on the go at once.

Geoff T.
Phred
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Re: New layout

Post by Phred »

Time flies when you're enjoying yourself... :)
aleopardstail
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Re: New layout

Post by aleopardstail »

like a clear desk accumulates clutter "free time" accumulates distractions
Stokestation12
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Re: New layout

Post by Stokestation12 »

So I've been doing some little alterations here and there and doing a load of test runs.
Got few areas to troubleshoot that you may be able to help me with.




Class 43:
I was going to run a class 43 with 7 mk3s and the dummy, but the power car struggled to pull 3 mk3s and the dummy on the straights and wheel slipped on the bends.
I mentioned this in my local model shop and one of the staff members recommended using 2 power cars, one at each end.

Has anyone ever had any experience with this? Google hasn't yielded any results. I assumed it would cause derailments but the shopkeeper seemed to think it would work.





HAA mgr:
I've got a rake of 30+ HAA hoppers that run ok on the outer loop. I'm debating on whether to run the class 58 in coal Sect livery or double head class 37s.

Would coal sector locos have also ran on HEA hoppers as well or was that just for HAA?
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Mountain
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Re: New layout

Post by Mountain »

The HAA hoppers were often used with coal. For years trains of them went down the Cardiff Valleys taking coal trains to Aberthaw (Power station).

They were normally pulled by class 37's. Think sometimes they were double headed.

Usually had around 33 wagons? Sometimes 28? Can't remember. Usually 33 if I recall?

They had to eventually stop using HAA's due to coal theft as locals would run by the side of trains and drop the coal to steal some which lead to many a train stuck.

I don't actually recall HAA's being used for anything but coal... Though technically they could be used for other minerals.

HST... The first thing I would check is a new set of traction tyres. The Lima HST's tended to have a slight bit more pull. Hornbys version was modelled on the first year or two of the prototypes in use, while Limas version was based on the HST's a few years into their working lives. (This is the earlyier BR blue versions that I had).
I did prefer using the Hornby shorter coaches because it looked more realistic on a space starved layout than going without a pair of coaches in the formation, as nothing stands out more than a short formed HST! The problem is that they ideally need more traction in model form!
The new versions have no issues there, but their price is stupidly high! Even when they came out (And prices have gone up a few times since then) they were silly prices. Good models though as I once got to see one perform on a club layout.
Using two powered cars at either end just does not work and is prone to derailing. etter to try and mount two powered bogies in the same powercar but they need to be equally matched. I once mounted two like this in a buffet coach, but they were not that equally matched and caused de-railment problems so I abandoned the idea.
A good set of traction tyres on a Lima HST with added weight near the motor may work. I did not get this far before I abandoned 00. Think I still have a few Hornby HST's along with a few coaches... I sold a lot of them. Had several HST's in the past as there were so many out there secondhand.
aleopardstail
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Re: New layout

Post by aleopardstail »

Re: push - pull working

take the two power cars, stick them on the same track about a foot or two apart, measure the distance. run them for a circuit or two and measure again.

do this at a few speeds, invariably one is slightly faster than the other. if its slight you put the fast one at the back (so its not dragged and hoping it pushes about half the train while the other drags it). more of a gap, fast at the front, and even more they are not compatible.

check with power cars alone and with each dragging half a rake - some may be faster but less powerful.

under DCC its easier as you can speed profile them to run together, with DC its the above method and hoping they work

better is sorting out the adhesion and power so one is enough - don't forget to check the coaches though, it may be you have one or two that are not very free rolling

do the same for the dummy power car, I used to have a Hornby set where the dummy ran like it had brakes applied
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