Adding on to my previous post, I decided to do a dry run with the track that I did have along with the 2 new sets of peco points I recently got hold of and did a rough layout of the shed end of the depot to check for clearances. Definitely able to fit in a 4 roadshed however I have found that after putting a 1/4 built scratch coaling stage on the board, it took up more room than anticipated, took up the space of one of the fiddle yard lines and would prevent me from having a loco hoist right by the shed.
However, I do have over 2 feet from the end of the baseboard to the doorframe in the room, the baseboards are well above the radiator in the room and there is a nice blank space along the wall above the radiator leading into the opposite corner. So what I'm thinking is scrap the fiddle yard behind the mpd, build a new shelf along the radiator wall right into the corner, put the fiddle yard on there and have a lifting curved section leading from the layout to the fiddle yard. That way I'll have more room for a fiddleyard without encroaching on the layout and it'll be more accessible than the current design.
Pictures will follow.
8ft by 7ft oval with depot
Re: 8ft by 7ft oval with depot
Is difficult to know what is best to do. If ones aims are scenic, then avoid cramming things in, but if one prefers things to be operational (As in a working model railway where trains do a job) then cramming things in makes sense, as the pleasure comes from operating the trains rather than the scenic setting they are in.
Sometimes, if you prefer running over the scenic look, one can build a layout with almost no scenery and be happy if ones trains to somewhere and come back from somewhere.
It all depends on the side of the hobby one prefers.
Of course one can blend in both.
To go for realism, it is surprising how many layouts lack proper signalling and lack certain prototype practices. Watched exhibition layouts whose diesel locos ran so slow in what their owners assumed to be "Scale speed" that if it were real life one would be facing disciplinary action for being late, and other aspects where they run a loco a good distance and directly couple up without stopping first before coupling up.
Other mistakes include working tail lamps on the loco which is no where near the back of the train (Signalman would stop the train if it was noticed), or missing rear tail lamps etc...
But the main element that is normally missing is the signalling, and then it it is added, the signals can be left fixed in impossible positions. (E.g. For more than one road to proceed at the same time! Is actually more prototypical to have the driver stop at a signal and then proceed past several signals set to danger after being given permission by the signalman, and this would mirror prototype practice if setting all signals to danger and assuming there is some sort of track circuit failure so trains would be given permission to proceed past certain signals).
But anyway. It is all meant for fun! Following prototype practices can be fun, but so can just running trains to ones own rules! Whatever works best for you!
Sometimes, if you prefer running over the scenic look, one can build a layout with almost no scenery and be happy if ones trains to somewhere and come back from somewhere.
It all depends on the side of the hobby one prefers.
Of course one can blend in both.
To go for realism, it is surprising how many layouts lack proper signalling and lack certain prototype practices. Watched exhibition layouts whose diesel locos ran so slow in what their owners assumed to be "Scale speed" that if it were real life one would be facing disciplinary action for being late, and other aspects where they run a loco a good distance and directly couple up without stopping first before coupling up.
Other mistakes include working tail lamps on the loco which is no where near the back of the train (Signalman would stop the train if it was noticed), or missing rear tail lamps etc...
But the main element that is normally missing is the signalling, and then it it is added, the signals can be left fixed in impossible positions. (E.g. For more than one road to proceed at the same time! Is actually more prototypical to have the driver stop at a signal and then proceed past several signals set to danger after being given permission by the signalman, and this would mirror prototype practice if setting all signals to danger and assuming there is some sort of track circuit failure so trains would be given permission to proceed past certain signals).
But anyway. It is all meant for fun! Following prototype practices can be fun, but so can just running trains to ones own rules! Whatever works best for you!
Modelling On A Budget ---》 https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/F ... 22&t=52212
-
End2end
- Posts: 6010
- Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
- Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end
Re: 8ft by 7ft oval with depot
Make sure you can reach all track to clean it.
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread
Welcome
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread
Re: 8ft by 7ft oval with depot
[/quote]
Anyway so continuing on from my previous post, have done some measuring up and I will be able to fit in a 5ft 5inch long fiddleyard on the radiator wall. I don't plan on making this to the same width as the rest of the baseboards as I will need to be able to get in and out of the room so I reckon a 1ft wide fiddleyard will be ideal and to maximise storage space, I'll look at doing it as a 5 road traverser.
This eliminates the need for a fiddle yard behind the MPD so I have removed the one siding to make it a long single track. Debating on whether to leave it open to viewing or hide it behind a backscene but the capability for either is there. The scenic section will finish at the end of the baseboard so either option will work. There is space at the far end to replace the track ends with another turntable or to make it easier on the electrics and my wallet, I could just use cassettes at each end for the turning of locomotives.
Here is a rough layout of how the MPD would look going off the design before the rejig. As mentioned before, the coaling stage footprint does mean a tight squeeze if I have the two lines behind it however with the add on fiddleyard, this will eliminate the need for two lines and I'll just have one instead. Will probably look at removing the lower shelf on the wall and putting it back on the opposite wall where it was originally so that I have some clearance for the scenery.
These last two images show the space I have available for the fiddle yard. As the workbench is quite high up, the baseboards will clear the radiator and the guitar amps (once I shift them again). I will have to do a lifting section for the curve leading to the fiddleyard so that I can get in and out the room. Since the fiddleyard should be no wider than 1ft, that'll leave me plenty of room to get around and access/ clean the tracks.
I'll be aiming for the best of both worlds as I do want to operate it as realistic as possible whilst making an effort on the scenery. Eventually if I get the chance to do so, I would like to be able to exhibit it in the future. But we'll see. Definitley will be putting in working signalling as I have got a few ratio kits that I want to get mechanised/ motorised. Tail Lamps I'll look at as-well.Mountain wrote: ↑Sat Sep 16, 2023 2:50 am Is difficult to know what is best to do. If ones aims are scenic, then avoid cramming things in, but if one prefers things to be operational (As in a working model railway where trains do a job) then cramming things in makes sense, as the pleasure comes from operating the trains rather than the scenic setting they are in.
Sometimes, if you prefer running over the scenic look, one can build a layout with almost no scenery and be happy if ones trains to somewhere and come back from somewhere.
It all depends on the side of the hobby one prefers.
Of course one can blend in both.
To go for realism, it is surprising how many layouts lack proper signalling and lack certain prototype practices. Watched exhibition layouts whose diesel locos ran so slow in what their owners assumed to be "Scale speed" that if it were real life one would be facing disciplinary action for being late, and other aspects where they run a loco a good distance and directly couple up without stopping first before coupling up.
Other mistakes include working tail lamps on the loco which is no where near the back of the train (Signalman would stop the train if it was noticed), or missing rear tail lamps etc...
But the main element that is normally missing is the signalling, and then it it is added, the signals can be left fixed in impossible positions. (E.g. For more than one road to proceed at the same time! Is actually more prototypical to have the driver stop at a signal and then proceed past several signals set to danger after being given permission by the signalman, and this would mirror prototype practice if setting all signals to danger and assuming there is some sort of track circuit failure so trains would be given permission to proceed past certain signals).
But anyway. It is all meant for fun! Following prototype practices can be fun, but so can just running trains to ones own rules! Whatever works best for you!
I shouldn't have a problem with reaching it all as the boards are 2 ft wide max and I have got a decent reach.
Anyway so continuing on from my previous post, have done some measuring up and I will be able to fit in a 5ft 5inch long fiddleyard on the radiator wall. I don't plan on making this to the same width as the rest of the baseboards as I will need to be able to get in and out of the room so I reckon a 1ft wide fiddleyard will be ideal and to maximise storage space, I'll look at doing it as a 5 road traverser.
This eliminates the need for a fiddle yard behind the MPD so I have removed the one siding to make it a long single track. Debating on whether to leave it open to viewing or hide it behind a backscene but the capability for either is there. The scenic section will finish at the end of the baseboard so either option will work. There is space at the far end to replace the track ends with another turntable or to make it easier on the electrics and my wallet, I could just use cassettes at each end for the turning of locomotives.
Here is a rough layout of how the MPD would look going off the design before the rejig. As mentioned before, the coaling stage footprint does mean a tight squeeze if I have the two lines behind it however with the add on fiddleyard, this will eliminate the need for two lines and I'll just have one instead. Will probably look at removing the lower shelf on the wall and putting it back on the opposite wall where it was originally so that I have some clearance for the scenery.
These last two images show the space I have available for the fiddle yard. As the workbench is quite high up, the baseboards will clear the radiator and the guitar amps (once I shift them again). I will have to do a lifting section for the curve leading to the fiddleyard so that I can get in and out the room. Since the fiddleyard should be no wider than 1ft, that'll leave me plenty of room to get around and access/ clean the tracks.
Re: 8ft by 7ft oval with depot
I like it! Working signals are really worth the effort as they are most effective. Ratio signals are well known for their cotton line operation and many modeller have altered this over the years to work electrically or by other means.
Another make (If my eyes are correct and you are modelling in 00?) Is Dapol who came out with working semaphore signals a few years ago. I have not tried them myself. (As I am more into 7mm narrow gauge), but other modeller have used them so can advise you on their experiences and how they work etc, as I believe they are servo operated signals if I recall? Worth looking into!
But working signals really do add that realistic element and can be a lot more effective than spending money in other directions when trying to improve one's layout.
To me, realistic operation captures the atmosphere better than other visual elements. I am a "Hands on" person as my time while working on the railways has a very physical aspect. This aspect I have aims to re-create.
Oddly, when I see trains crawl at a few scale mph it does not look as real as my experiences as staff were often pushed to their limits! Rather, watching a loco come to a halt and then draw forward to buffer up following prototype safety practices reminds me of the real thing far more than an immaculately turned out retailer model loco driven straight into couple up to its train. (Which would in real life have such a driver in the office in front of their managers if someone noticed!) Is the little operational things that grab the railway atmosphere more than the model looks.
Another make (If my eyes are correct and you are modelling in 00?) Is Dapol who came out with working semaphore signals a few years ago. I have not tried them myself. (As I am more into 7mm narrow gauge), but other modeller have used them so can advise you on their experiences and how they work etc, as I believe they are servo operated signals if I recall? Worth looking into!
But working signals really do add that realistic element and can be a lot more effective than spending money in other directions when trying to improve one's layout.
To me, realistic operation captures the atmosphere better than other visual elements. I am a "Hands on" person as my time while working on the railways has a very physical aspect. This aspect I have aims to re-create.
Oddly, when I see trains crawl at a few scale mph it does not look as real as my experiences as staff were often pushed to their limits! Rather, watching a loco come to a halt and then draw forward to buffer up following prototype safety practices reminds me of the real thing far more than an immaculately turned out retailer model loco driven straight into couple up to its train. (Which would in real life have such a driver in the office in front of their managers if someone noticed!) Is the little operational things that grab the railway atmosphere more than the model looks.
Modelling On A Budget ---》 https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/F ... 22&t=52212
Re: 8ft by 7ft oval with depot
Hi Mountain,
Your description of real life coupling makes a lot of sense. Coupling up on most model layouts tends to be 'tap and go' which doesn't look all that realistic.
Your description of real life coupling makes a lot of sense. Coupling up on most model layouts tends to be 'tap and go' which doesn't look all that realistic.
Re: 8ft by 7ft oval with depot
Mini update as I had opened up the track plan file to get hold of a list of materials so I could have a list of how much track I needed to purchase.
Had another look at the MPD track plan and considering that I would eventually want to exhibit it at some point, having a blank siding running out of sight behind the shed seemed to be a bit of a waste. Plus I still wanted somewhere suitable to site the lifting hoist and didn't think I would have enough room between the shed and the coaling siding.
So after a bit of rejigging I have come up with a slightly modified MPD
It is fairly similiar to my last design in the sense of a four road shed and coaling stage + siding however I have removed the "hidden" siding, shifted the shed across so that it is closer to the coaling stage and after battling with AnyRail, fitted in a siding running along the front visible side of the shed to the rear and sited a new siding in the open area in front of the depot. This will give me plenty of space to place the lifting hoist and there is still space left over for me to either fit another siding as a cripple siding or have some scenery in there such as a hut or grounded coach for the shed staff. If I desperately wanted another siding, I could fit one leading away from the coaling siding in the gap between that and the shed roads or that could be just over egging the pudding potentially.
Had another look at the MPD track plan and considering that I would eventually want to exhibit it at some point, having a blank siding running out of sight behind the shed seemed to be a bit of a waste. Plus I still wanted somewhere suitable to site the lifting hoist and didn't think I would have enough room between the shed and the coaling siding.
So after a bit of rejigging I have come up with a slightly modified MPD
It is fairly similiar to my last design in the sense of a four road shed and coaling stage + siding however I have removed the "hidden" siding, shifted the shed across so that it is closer to the coaling stage and after battling with AnyRail, fitted in a siding running along the front visible side of the shed to the rear and sited a new siding in the open area in front of the depot. This will give me plenty of space to place the lifting hoist and there is still space left over for me to either fit another siding as a cripple siding or have some scenery in there such as a hut or grounded coach for the shed staff. If I desperately wanted another siding, I could fit one leading away from the coaling siding in the gap between that and the shed roads or that could be just over egging the pudding potentially.