12 pre owned, never been used IP Analog point motors with Hattons, £214 plus £4 P&P. Or, 12 brand new, never been pre owned 12 IP Analog point motors from Rails £203.95 plus £4 P&P.
Er, it's no contest, isnt it? Apart from the obvious buying new you have DCC Concepts lifetime warranty on the IPAs, do they not price check competitors? Obviously a rhetorical question because Hattons clearly havent.
Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
Re: Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
Quite apart from the obvious **** up, I've always thought their second hand prices are too high.
Pete.
Re: Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
There has been a very significant change in their s/h practise, since they started this activity. Initially the pricing was competitive and consistent, a little over half the price of new, for items in overall good condition. Items with damage for less. Comparable with bricks and mortar outlets, but with a very extensive choice on offer.
That's all in the past now. Present shortage of new supply has enabled a significant price hike; and I feel this may be by a simple equation; buy in price multiplied by a set factor. Some of the pricing is very erratic. If there is ever anything useful, I will see what their position is with negotiation.
That's all in the past now. Present shortage of new supply has enabled a significant price hike; and I feel this may be by a simple equation; buy in price multiplied by a set factor. Some of the pricing is very erratic. If there is ever anything useful, I will see what their position is with negotiation.
Re: Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
A business will try to maximise the price they can get for s/h, there's really nothing new there - I did exactly that with my s/h spares counter. The consumer's sanction if the pricing isn't right is simple - don't buy it, however much you really want the thing.
Re: Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
Having been 'in business,' I get that you always try and get the best price. But, trying to sell 2nd hand stuff, whether used or not, for more than probably your biggest competitor is charging for brand new is just utter madness.Richard08 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:14 pm A business will try to maximise the price they can get for s/h, there's really nothing new there - I did exactly that with my s/h spares counter. The consumer's sanction if the pricing isn't right is simple - don't buy it, however much you really want the thing.
Ive seen Hattons asking for £200 for near wrecked locos as well. Charlie at Chadwick did a vid not so long ago where one of his viewers sent him a loco bought as a non runner from Hattons as a do-er upper. When Charlie opened it up to 'fix' it, it had no pcb in it.
Re: Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
On the quality of s/h, well... I bought a s/h engine from a "reputable" establishment (not Hattons). It had a bent axle, a wheel was falling off and the underneath had been plastered with epoxy and/or melted with a soldering iron to hold it together. Sold as "a good runner"... Needless to say it was returned and they won't be getting any further custom from me, new or s/h. From the same shop I had previously bought a double slip and an 'new' 08, both of which were discounted slightly - I strongly suspect both were in fact customer returns.centenary wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:48 pm
Ive seen Hattons asking for £200 for near wrecked locos as well. Charlie at Chadwick did a vid not so long ago where one of his viewers sent him a loco bought as a non runner from Hattons as a do-er upper. When Charlie opened it up to 'fix' it, it had no pcb in it.
Re: Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
It can be difficult to get things right.
Hattons in the past were excellent with their second-hand through mail order (Though I am going back some 25-30 years ago). The prices were very fair to being excellent, and though it was a case of the loco being a little of a mystery via their advert as it was advertised as "Hornby (Or Triang-Hornby class 37/47/35 in green or blue" (They decided which to send) one was never dissapointed. They also did other perks such as a free circle of track of a free R620 railer/uncoupler. One really knew that in those days that Hattons was "On the modeller side".
Today the impression I get from the adverts and the offers (Due to finding their site difficult to navigate, if I do look it is for second-hand items though I never buy... Not bought from Hattons since the electronic address system as my parcels were not reaching the house as despite requests asking to hand write the village name they never did. Nothing personal other than having to trace my parcel and drive a few hours into the big city which I rarely went to go the parcels depot to find it... Just too much of a hastle from my side of things. Other mail order retailer either listened to instructions or hand write their addresses anyway so there was never a problem)).
But to be honest, when around a decade ago or probably more, when I was Hattons prices of secondhand, and the descriptions, I remember thinking how big and miss it would be if I tried to order following their descriptions. A lot of mistakes were made in describing locos too back then due to a lack of knowledge of loco classes etc, though I can appreciate this as while I would be fine with Great Western locos or B.R. diesels, I'd be out of my depth for a few other region locos... So is understandable...
But when I saw the prices I thought "At least with the high prices they will be able to offer decent prices secondhand to those selling", so though I have never sold to them, there is this thought in mind.
Another retailer has recently come under some flack with customers having second thoughts by the way they dealt with an online hobbyist where they know this person has issues, but as he knows he has issues, he never phones without his carer present.
And before one jumps to conclusions, remember that this individual spends a lot of money per year at their shop. A simple house visit would have put the situation right and given the business high recommendations so even a day's drive would have returned rewards. Unfortunately, they simply banned him rather than real with him which is something that can do more damage for the retailer than for the customer, so banning should never ever be taken lightly. The problem with banning is that this brings the store into much worse reputation than it they had made the effort to visit him or his carer to sort the problem out.
I have gone over backwards myself for many customers in the past while working at many places, and one learns that the most awkward of customers really are the most loyal. They really do spend the most money as well!
The situation in this case is both a disaster for the customer, but more-so for the retailer (Not Hattons, but a well known competitor), as while one assumes that it is just one customer that one has to ban, one has effectively alienated oneself from a whole community of customers who have similar mental conditions as their customer where if one had taken the steps to send someone round (Even if it is a day's drive) it would have really made a massive difference to one's customer reputation. (This customer is a youtuber who describes his experiences. If they had made the effort to visit him to put things right, he would have been delighted to show this on his YouTube Channel. That advertizing alone would have achieved more support than it they attended hundreds of shows! His YouTube site has over 1.5 million suscribers!
Going the extra mile (Even if it is for the umpteenth time), is well worth the effort. Many businesses would actually sponsor such customers and even give them freebees in order to get that extra advertising because the potential returns are massive!)).
Here is the issue. Is not that there are problems from time to time on behalf of the retailer. It is that those problems are often the greatest opportunity a retailer will ever know which can make or break their business! And it is NOT the customers fault. They just see things as they see it, especially if they are on the autism spectrum! But win them over and it is as if one has won the world!
I can easily share my good and my bad experiences both as a customer and being involved in various positions in a retail trade (Not model railways but a different trade which may actually be more "Customer challenging", though I appreciate that model railways retailers need a lot of patience with customers to win their custom).
It is often apparent when noticing staff or the owners, how much retail training they have received and what type of training they have had, by how they conduct themselves as they serve. Most model railway business owners have had no retail training and to be honest, it shows(!!!), and while in some cases it does not matter, as the individuals caring and kind character really makes up for it; butat other times when I have been served, if the individuals had worked in places that I have worked at and dealt with customers in the same way, they would have been sacked on the spot! Why this matters, is one can make or break one's business through one's customer reputation.
No matter what prices one charges of what offers one makes, a bad customer experience that was not corrected means the customer stays away for life, and many more with them. The many more with them used to be up to a few hundred potential customers. But with today's online world, those of us who have sat through these retail courses will be more than well aware that a single bad customer experience effects an average of 7000! (Big global retailers do their homework. Shame some of them ignore their own figures assuming that their size will enable them to survive. Sadly some well known giants have fallen and we can all name examples of such. Simply turning to online only trading when one has a reputation of being a high street trader can spell disaster for company sales, as one has launched oneself into a market that is so competative, that one's competition who began online trading in their early years can run rings round these ex.high street traders and it shows!
But regarding trading principles. It is fine to charge top prices IF one can back it up with top customer service and top customer experience. Top customer experience involves highly detailed model examinations and write ups if done online, so customers will be able to trust that the retail staff have done their utmost to avoid customer dissapointment. (It can happen... It is what one does when it happens which can make or break a business, but it is best to get this part right first time as can be costly to correct mistakes).
Retailers need to have the ability to examine their customer service from the outside looking in rather than the inside looking out.
Though I only read parts of it myself, a good book recommended to buy is a book called "Raving Fans" if it is still in print. Sadly I have my copy away before I read it, but the concept is about the customer experience.
Hattons in the past were excellent with their second-hand through mail order (Though I am going back some 25-30 years ago). The prices were very fair to being excellent, and though it was a case of the loco being a little of a mystery via their advert as it was advertised as "Hornby (Or Triang-Hornby class 37/47/35 in green or blue" (They decided which to send) one was never dissapointed. They also did other perks such as a free circle of track of a free R620 railer/uncoupler. One really knew that in those days that Hattons was "On the modeller side".
Today the impression I get from the adverts and the offers (Due to finding their site difficult to navigate, if I do look it is for second-hand items though I never buy... Not bought from Hattons since the electronic address system as my parcels were not reaching the house as despite requests asking to hand write the village name they never did. Nothing personal other than having to trace my parcel and drive a few hours into the big city which I rarely went to go the parcels depot to find it... Just too much of a hastle from my side of things. Other mail order retailer either listened to instructions or hand write their addresses anyway so there was never a problem)).
But to be honest, when around a decade ago or probably more, when I was Hattons prices of secondhand, and the descriptions, I remember thinking how big and miss it would be if I tried to order following their descriptions. A lot of mistakes were made in describing locos too back then due to a lack of knowledge of loco classes etc, though I can appreciate this as while I would be fine with Great Western locos or B.R. diesels, I'd be out of my depth for a few other region locos... So is understandable...
But when I saw the prices I thought "At least with the high prices they will be able to offer decent prices secondhand to those selling", so though I have never sold to them, there is this thought in mind.
Another retailer has recently come under some flack with customers having second thoughts by the way they dealt with an online hobbyist where they know this person has issues, but as he knows he has issues, he never phones without his carer present.
And before one jumps to conclusions, remember that this individual spends a lot of money per year at their shop. A simple house visit would have put the situation right and given the business high recommendations so even a day's drive would have returned rewards. Unfortunately, they simply banned him rather than real with him which is something that can do more damage for the retailer than for the customer, so banning should never ever be taken lightly. The problem with banning is that this brings the store into much worse reputation than it they had made the effort to visit him or his carer to sort the problem out.
I have gone over backwards myself for many customers in the past while working at many places, and one learns that the most awkward of customers really are the most loyal. They really do spend the most money as well!
The situation in this case is both a disaster for the customer, but more-so for the retailer (Not Hattons, but a well known competitor), as while one assumes that it is just one customer that one has to ban, one has effectively alienated oneself from a whole community of customers who have similar mental conditions as their customer where if one had taken the steps to send someone round (Even if it is a day's drive) it would have really made a massive difference to one's customer reputation. (This customer is a youtuber who describes his experiences. If they had made the effort to visit him to put things right, he would have been delighted to show this on his YouTube Channel. That advertizing alone would have achieved more support than it they attended hundreds of shows! His YouTube site has over 1.5 million suscribers!
Going the extra mile (Even if it is for the umpteenth time), is well worth the effort. Many businesses would actually sponsor such customers and even give them freebees in order to get that extra advertising because the potential returns are massive!)).
Here is the issue. Is not that there are problems from time to time on behalf of the retailer. It is that those problems are often the greatest opportunity a retailer will ever know which can make or break their business! And it is NOT the customers fault. They just see things as they see it, especially if they are on the autism spectrum! But win them over and it is as if one has won the world!
I can easily share my good and my bad experiences both as a customer and being involved in various positions in a retail trade (Not model railways but a different trade which may actually be more "Customer challenging", though I appreciate that model railways retailers need a lot of patience with customers to win their custom).
It is often apparent when noticing staff or the owners, how much retail training they have received and what type of training they have had, by how they conduct themselves as they serve. Most model railway business owners have had no retail training and to be honest, it shows(!!!), and while in some cases it does not matter, as the individuals caring and kind character really makes up for it; butat other times when I have been served, if the individuals had worked in places that I have worked at and dealt with customers in the same way, they would have been sacked on the spot! Why this matters, is one can make or break one's business through one's customer reputation.
No matter what prices one charges of what offers one makes, a bad customer experience that was not corrected means the customer stays away for life, and many more with them. The many more with them used to be up to a few hundred potential customers. But with today's online world, those of us who have sat through these retail courses will be more than well aware that a single bad customer experience effects an average of 7000! (Big global retailers do their homework. Shame some of them ignore their own figures assuming that their size will enable them to survive. Sadly some well known giants have fallen and we can all name examples of such. Simply turning to online only trading when one has a reputation of being a high street trader can spell disaster for company sales, as one has launched oneself into a market that is so competative, that one's competition who began online trading in their early years can run rings round these ex.high street traders and it shows!
But regarding trading principles. It is fine to charge top prices IF one can back it up with top customer service and top customer experience. Top customer experience involves highly detailed model examinations and write ups if done online, so customers will be able to trust that the retail staff have done their utmost to avoid customer dissapointment. (It can happen... It is what one does when it happens which can make or break a business, but it is best to get this part right first time as can be costly to correct mistakes).
Retailers need to have the ability to examine their customer service from the outside looking in rather than the inside looking out.
Though I only read parts of it myself, a good book recommended to buy is a book called "Raving Fans" if it is still in print. Sadly I have my copy away before I read it, but the concept is about the customer experience.
Modelling On A Budget ---》 https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/F ... 22&t=52212
Re: Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
Somewhat expanding the thread (ok, going off piste) I get the feeling that 'business' in general, in all areas, over the last 40 years or so has changed it's position from 'business existing to satisfy customers' to 'customers existing to satisfy the business'.
Re: Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
Realistically this attitude has always been present where the business 'owns' the better mousetrap. But the moment that's lost, the failure of that business is in prospect. Much of the UK's motor industry and consumer electronics went that way. Not unique to the UK, the most recent such household name failure was Kodak, which decided that the customers would move from film to digital at a pace that best suited their business. The customers walked.
Re: Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
Class 37/0 37034 in BR blue - Weathered - DCC Sound Fitted - Pre-owned - Body of 32-781A fitted to chassis of 32-377DS - Nose sections of body shell & both couplings missing - Cab glazing missing from one end - Snowploughs fitted - Incorrect box.
A snip at £151 post paid. Hope the sound chip is a good un!
https://www.hattons.co.uk/1403483/bachm ... tockdetail
A snip at £151 post paid. Hope the sound chip is a good un!
https://www.hattons.co.uk/1403483/bachm ... tockdetail
Re: Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
Should such an assemblage be of interest to me, let's say primarily as a sound decoder to transfer to another model and a mechanism for spares as a 'breaker', then I would make an offer on that basis. (I'd read the body as a wreck, Johnny Ninethumbs has had a go at it and it's declared as incomplete, no idea what other defects haven't been spotted.)
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Re: Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
Hold on...I'll just grab my bargepole.... and some distance markers.centenary wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:42 am Class 37/0 37034 in BR blue - Weathered - DCC Sound Fitted - Pre-owned - Body of 32-781A fitted to chassis of 32-377DS - Nose sections of body shell & both couplings missing - Cab glazing missing from one end - Snowploughs fitted - Incorrect box.
A snip at £151 post paid. Hope the sound chip is a good un!
https://www.hattons.co.uk/1403483/bachm ... tockdetail
Thanks
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Re: Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
I have deleted what I write because I am looking at their second-hand locos and the ones I know inside and out which I normally buy are actually within roughly the area I expected them to be. Some are too high but not hugely too high like that wrecked 37 is.centenary wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:42 am Class 37/0 37034 in BR blue - Weathered - DCC Sound Fitted - Pre-owned - Body of 32-781A fitted to chassis of 32-377DS - Nose sections of body shell & both couplings missing - Cab glazing missing from one end - Snowploughs fitted - Incorrect box.
A snip at £151 post paid. Hope the sound chip is a good un!
https://www.hattons.co.uk/1403483/bachm ... tockdetail
I am going to delve deeper!
Uhmm. Well. I would say their prices are around 20-25% higher than expected but not stupidly high on the locos I looked up. Example of a loco I expected to be (As I have seen these in as new condition at around £75, and this they are selling looks good) for £102, which is pretty high but not stupidly high. (Wonder if I can make an offer?
).I guess it depends what it is?
I usually look at the 0-4-0's. One example (Limited edition) is absolutely stupid money at £85. It may well be relatively rare (Not that rare), but no way would I pay that price as brand new "Improved" ordinary examples which are genuinely improved they are selling for £44.54 and that is in the exact same livery, name and number!
But generally, as long as the model is complete, a version being a non-runner is about 10% higher than elsewhere which we are talking about a pound or two too high so is not a lot. It does vary though, and I guess it is all a guessing game with some items such as the limited edition version above. Guessing that a collector may be willing to pay that amount. Those like me who view them not to complete a collection but to use and enjoy will not pay £85 for one of those 0-4-0's, as the limited edition value itself means nothing to us when they still sell them the exact same apart from them being a newer built example of it in the modern box.
I have only looked at two pages of models and concentrated on the ones I really know inside out as I have quite a few and when I see one I naturally look. (Thought this is the best way to judge prices as a good example).
Modelling On A Budget ---》 https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/F ... 22&t=52212
Re: Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
I used to check Hattons s/h pages every morning but their prices have gone up to more than I'm willing to pay so I don't bother now. I wonder what they do with all the excess stock which must be accumulating.
To be fair, prices seem to have gone through the roof on everything everywhere. I was hanging out with my two sons and four of my grandchildren the other day and bought fish and chips for our lunch. Cost me $84 (around 44 GBP) for the greasy pleasure. Never thought I'd see the day.
To be fair, prices seem to have gone through the roof on everything everywhere. I was hanging out with my two sons and four of my grandchildren the other day and bought fish and chips for our lunch. Cost me $84 (around 44 GBP) for the greasy pleasure. Never thought I'd see the day.
Re: Bonkers 'pre owned' pricing?
[Careers off-topic] That's pretty much the the same as my local chippie - assuming 7 of you. £6.10 for small fish and small chips here. Was £4.20 a couple years back... aye, 'appen there were forty two o' us livin' in 't 'ole in't road and paid 't mill owner for 't privillage 'o workin'. By eck.Phred wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:49 pm
To be fair, prices seem to have gone through the roof on everything everywhere. I was hanging out with my two sons and four of my grandchildren the other day and bought fish and chips for our lunch. Cost me $84 (around 44 GBP) for the greasy pleasure. Never thought I'd see the day.
[regains the road of righteousness]