Why is "you get what you pay for" such a hard concept for people?

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Richard08
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Re: Why is "you get what you pay for" such a hard concept for people?

Post by Richard08 »

InFullSteam wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 9:31 pm Begs the question of: If the 3D printed design files will be 'shared/downloaded/torrented illegally' like music/video files were 20 years ago to the present.
Open source ;-)
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stuartp
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Re: Why is "you get what you pay for" such a hard concept for people?

Post by stuartp »

Bigmet wrote: From current RTR, £250 for new purchases, less with s/h.
More like £750-£800 at Rapido/Accurascale prices. And you're limited to the liveries and variants they choose, although in fairness, with those two manufacturers that's quite a wide choice.

They priced me out years ago, fortunately I quite like building kits so Parkside, Ratio and Cambrian provide most of my wagon needs. There is some RTR in there but theres a limit to how many 9'wb LNER opens one layout needs, even at a tenner or so each. The last two RTR purchases were a Hornby 20t brake van £15 new (from the bargain bin, handrail broken on arrival at the shop) and Dapol's gorgeous Bogie Bolster E. Both fiddly prototypes with no available kits. If Dapol can do the BBE for less than thirty quid I utterly fail to see why a plain LMS 4 wheel open should be nearly 40 quid.

As for Sam, is this the same plank who was running a train in the bath ?
Portwilliam - Southwest Scotland in the 1960s, in OO - http://stuart1968.wordpress.com/
InFullSteam
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Re: Why is "you get what you pay for" such a hard concept for people?

Post by InFullSteam »

stuartp wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 10:00 pm
Bigmet wrote: From current RTR, £250 for new purchases, less with s/h.
More like £750-£800 at Rapido/Accurascale prices. And you're limited to the liveries and variants they choose, although in fairness, with those two manufacturers that's quite a wide choice.

They priced me out years ago, fortunately I quite like building kits so Parkside, Ratio and Cambrian provide most of my wagon needs. There is some RTR in there but theres a limit to how many 9'wb LNER opens one layout needs, even at a tenner or so each. The last two RTR purchases were a Hornby 20t brake van £15 new (from the bargain bin, handrail broken on arrival at the shop) and Dapol's gorgeous Bogie Bolster E. Both fiddly prototypes with no available kits. If Dapol can do the BBE for less than thirty quid I utterly fail to see why a plain LMS 4 wheel open should be nearly 40 quid.

As for Sam, is this the same plank who was running a train in the bath ?
Ratio’s basic kit designs have to be almost 50 years old at this point?
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stuartp
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Re: Why is "you get what you pay for" such a hard concept for people?

Post by stuartp »

InFullSteam wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 10:26 pm Ratio’s basic kit designs have to be almost 50 years old at this point?
Some, and the youngest are at least 30 i think, but they are still essentially accurate and high quality. They lend themselves to much cross kitting and tarting up with aftermarket bits; I have close to 300 BR steam era wagons and, which the possible exception of a batch of Airfix 1/108 minerals, I doubt two are exactly the same.

As an example, so far I've pinned down at least a dozen different variations on the 'standard' Dia 1/208 BR 12T van, not including livery and lettering differences.

Tonight there are two ancient "3H" LNER opens on the bench. One will end up as a 9'wb wooden solebar vac fitted version with steel channel replacing some end planks, the other will be the 6 plank version of the 10' wb steel solebar design (the Parkside kit is a 5 plank). The bog standard 9' wb unfitted version is already covered by an Oxford one.
Portwilliam - Southwest Scotland in the 1960s, in OO - http://stuart1968.wordpress.com/
Richard08
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Re: Why is "you get what you pay for" such a hard concept for people?

Post by Richard08 »

stuartp wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 12:59 am
As an example, so far I've pinned down at least a dozen different variations on the 'standard' Dia 1/208 BR 12T van, not including livery and lettering differences.
In my quest for info regarding a BG I'm making I found this site http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html which will likely uncover more - one thing now very clear after ploughing through more of those pdfs than is entirely sensible is that when a reference says the prototype is, say, Diagram 711 that is very much only a starting point! You could fill and entire layout with buffet/restaurant cars with no two being the same.
InFullSteam
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Re: Why is "you get what you pay for" such a hard concept for people?

Post by InFullSteam »

stuartp wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 12:59 am
InFullSteam wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 10:26 pm Ratio’s basic kit designs have to be almost 50 years old at this point?
Some, and the youngest are at least 30 i think, but they are still essentially accurate and high quality. They lend themselves to much cross kitting and tarting up with aftermarket bits; I have close to 300 BR steam era wagons and, which the possible exception of a batch of Airfix 1/108 minerals, I doubt two are exactly the same.

As an example, so far I've pinned down at least a dozen different variations on the 'standard' Dia 1/208 BR 12T van, not including livery and lettering differences.

Tonight there are two ancient "3H" LNER opens on the bench. One will end up as a 9'wb wooden solebar vac fitted version with steel channel replacing some end planks, the other will be the 6 plank version of the 10' wb steel solebar design (the Parkside kit is a 5 plank). The bog standard 9' wb unfitted version is already covered by an Oxford one.
To be honest, any Ratio kit I've done has been a pain in the butt to put together. Comparatively, Parkside Dundas was a joy.
Richard08
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Re: Why is "you get what you pay for" such a hard concept for people?

Post by Richard08 »

InFullSteam wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:50 pm These comments are based on the recent Sam's Trains video "hrr drr Rapido's wagons are too expensive, let's do 3D printing for much cheaper".

It's a bit disingenous to say the 3D wagons are cheaper because you have to buy the materials and a 3D printer (which depending on what level is picked, isn't cheap either and you have to make a lot of wagons for the per-cost amount to be worth it). 3D printing is still in its infancy and depending on the materials chosen are more prone to warping long term.
Sam reckons his 3d printed wagon cost £10 inc cost of wheels (he prints his own NEM couplings), using the more expensive resin printing. I forget how much he paid for the printer, it's in his review of said printer, it was in the mid hundreds - but it would pay for itself very quickly at £20 per wagon saved. I dispute 3d printing is in it's infancy - people are producing wonderful things with it in all sorts of areas, including medical, not just models. The furniture in my signal box is, bar the lever frame and block instruments, all 3d printed and is exquisitely detailed and presented, the token machine being of particular note. If you watch the video (the one in question is only about the body, upgrading his 'standard' wagon chassis to resin printing is to be the subject of a further video) near the end is a close up shot of both his body and the Rappio one side by side. The definition of the planking and diagonal strap are better on his model than the Rapido. I believe resin printing, which gives far better results than the cheaper alternatives, cures warping problems.
Bigmet
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Re: Why is "you get what you pay for" such a hard concept for people?

Post by Bigmet »

stuartp wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 10:00 pm More like £750-£800 at Rapido/Accurascale prices. And you're limited to the liveries and variants they choose, although in fairness, with those two manufacturers that's quite a wide choice...
That's a choice; doesn't disqualify the economy RTR OO option from fulfilling the brief of someone new to the hobby wanting a 25 wagon train.
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centenary
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Re: Why is "you get what you pay for" such a hard concept for people?

Post by centenary »

Sorry to keep saying it: it doesnt matter what your hobby is, 3D printing, model trains, kit bashing, RC modelling, warhammer, photograph, DIY, whatever, if you get serious about it, you will end up paying serious money for items or equipment.

Budget versions either dont last, give you other issues such as 'put up with faults,' breakages, iffy appearance or just not perform to expectations etc. That doesnt mean you will not have some dissatisfaction with some premium items.
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