What the heck is going on.

[sparkhill]

I don't care if I get crucified over this, I believe that the model railway hobby is heading for a certain death, give it another few years and
nobody will be able to afford it.

I believe manufacturers are going along with pressure from armchair collectors and magazine editors, for goodness sakes I.read elsewhere on this forum that great excitement was the order of the day because a new freight wagon was in the pipeline fitted with sprung buffers, opening doors and detailed under frame, (sounds like a great idea if you want to run your goods trains upside-down), all jokes aside all this is doing is pandering to the minority, something that has become the norm in this day and age.

Seriously though a person would need the eyes of an Eagle to see the so called super details when a train is a meter away, to me it is wrecking the hobby for those that get enjoyment out of building a half decent layout and run trains, let's face it it really is just a hobby, the way things are going the hobby will become so expensive that young train fans won't be able to afford even a basic starter set.

What's needed is a new manufacturer that will make reasonably priced models with a decent motor and mechanism something we don't have these days, they are to busy fitting a load of almost invisible junk on their products and charging the earth for it, okay there are other reasons why the cost is going up all the more reason to revert back to making basic usable products.

I was going to finish up saying something nice like "to each his or her own" but I won't because people are the driving force behind the hobby making the hobby so expensive.

Cheers
Dave

[End2end]

I can't argue with anything there.
The cost of a pack of spare wheels alone has sky rocketed over the last handful of years.
Thanks
End2end

[Dad-1]

Must admit I look at some of the 'New' prices for wagons and think WHY ??
The trouble is some of us oldies still remember when £1 was worth something.
Even as a pensioner who is not destitute I'm starting to look to refurbishing some
second-hand stock, or making kits. What shocks me is the increase in prices for
old kits, but it's all to do with relative pricing, as is the steady increase of those
second-hand models.
The wolf is inflation, eating away our comprehension of what items cost. This is
extra tough on us oldies as our nest-egg is eroded and income is simply your pension.
At least those with a mortgage will end up with £'s in asset. No sob stories please. My
own example was my first bungalow that cost us £3600, not the same home, but
even allowing for a recent small drop in realised sale prices My home is in the
400,000 range !!! I could never have saved £396,400 in my lifetime !

Geoff T.

[centenary]

I tend to agree but all prices are 'rocketing' upwards at the moment.

There will always be a market for collectors to collect fine detailed models. Model railways is no different. Some of the big retailer's do discount which seems to draw the ire from manufacturers. I noticed Hattons's were heavily discounting some of DCC Concepts more expensive items, like 12 IP Digitals or Alpha Central bundle. Once they'd sold out, they dont seem to have any more of these so maybe DCC Concepts are limiting supply and availabilty to prevent the discounting?

Bachmann and Hornby have both had issues with the big 2 retailers discounting their goods such that now, one only sells 2nd hand models of Bachmann, the other only 2nd hand Hornby. If they do sell brand new, they've probably been supplied via the 'grey' market. Hornby are also restricting TT:120 to direct sales for now. The obvious conclusion there is they want to control the price.

I do think there's a market for highly detailed model locos and stock. Their very high price will limit their salability to people with deep pockets or, You Tube channels who get 'patreon' subscribers to effectively buy their top of the range stock for them.

Then you have the EBay scalpers who buy new release models or even pre order then, when they get their deliveries, promptly stick them on EBay for an inflated price greater than retail because there's limited supply, dont you know?

The knock on of all of this is used prices similarly get inflated. Some of the prices for used, broken or damaged items via Hatton's is, frankly shocking.

It may be my naivety but I think there's a sweet spot for models that are between the top tier models on price and detail and the RailRoad and EFE more basic range of models.

IMHO, it's a bit of a fallacy that any hobby has pricing aimed at children to encourage their participation. Kids dont tend to have £30-£50 to spend on a model never mind £150+, bank of mum and dad do that.

[Richard08]

I too would not disagree with what you say, I've been saying it myself. Sadly, as in all hobbies/pastimes, a very vocal minority are under the impression they speak for the whole and anyone having a different view is somehow wrong or amateur (yes, I'm firing at RMWeb). I'm aware of only one source of fully independent reviews that apply the same criteria and process to every model and speaks from 'the average modeler' point of view - and boy does he get stick for highlighting all is not well. Back in the day if you wanted super-detail/super accuracy you built kits, which is my chosen route for wagons at least, or added super-detail kits. This might seem unfair on the super-detail brigade, which it is in a way, but if that means more people can afford to join in that has to be better for the hobby overall. You can't sell a new Bentley to someone who can only afford a second hand Mini whatever wonderful features the Bentley may have.

[Byegad]

As an N gauge modeller since 1974, I sympathise with the OP. However, as I have modelled Continental, American and British outline at one time or another, mostly but not exclusively steam eras, I feel I can add something to the OP's point.

Most Continental outline 'N' models are better detailed and better engineered (in that they do not break down as often as UK outline models seem to) than UK equivalents. Their price is somewhat greater than a similar uk model, with an SNCF DC 2-8-2 tender loco running at close to £300. This compared to an 8F DCC Sound fitted for less than £250!

The worry I have is similar to the OP's but differs in that while prices of UK outline models are approaching, but not yet equal to, Continental prices, the quality of the item is still far short of the Continental quality.

Many of my Continental locos are 30 years old, yet run with little maintenance needed and few electrical failures. In the last 10 years I have bought UK steam locos from several manufacturers and one of the two biggest and well known brands have seen me return nearly as many new locos as faulty (in that they did not run reliably out of the box, even after the recommended running in) as I kept. I have never needed to return a faulty Fleischmann, Minitrix or Arnold loco.

[George Stein]

Writing from the USA. The hobby's problems are not unique to the UK. Go on line and find the "Walthers" catalog. This is the Bible of what's available in the USA and they are the main supplier to both mail-order shops and what few free-standing shops are left. Check the prices on a standard boxcar (wagon). About the only things less expensive in the USA and the various DCC electronics. {obviously the UK smaller market is the major factor in sound chips, etc.}

Likewise, alas, we're getting older. Most members of my club (AVMRC) are "seniors." I'm 80! However, remember the Soviet Union was quite certain religion would vanish when the "grandmothers" died out. Somehow, they never ran out of grandmothers after the Revolution!

Yet, there are some Springtime shoots. The advent of 3d printing is promising for the hobby. I really enjoy being able to get "real" OO scale era accurate figures from Modelu, Scale3d, etc. Somehow Dapol is holding the price line on wagons. Cambrian (excellent themselves) seem to have rescued the great GWR wagon molds from Cooper Craft. Several decal/transfer companies give us the option of building the exact train we need. Paint supply options have never been better and, finally, down-load cardstock kits flourish. Thus, cardstock, paint, transfers, kits, etc., in fact, return us to the foundations of the hobby. That is: if you can't afford to buy it, build it yourself.

Just the ramblings of an old man in this hobby. Remember your national motto: if we cannot build Jerusalem in this our green and pleasant land, we can damn-well build a scale replica!

George
North Carolina

[Bigmet]

The businesses supplying RTR product are simply 'following the money'; producing more of what their customer base has proven willing to buy, that provides the best return on investment. If their best interest in future proves to be a simpler and cheaper product, those with the wit to see it and act will move in that direction if they wish to stay in business.

...What's needed is a new manufacturer that will make reasonably priced models with a decent motor and mechanism something we don't have these days...

I would suggest we have had one in OO recently, Oxford Rail. I have six of their locos, all new price under £100, and they loose nothing in mechanism performance against my other RTR; better yet the pick of them, the N7, thanks to a majority metal body construction has traction superior to many significantly more expensive models. Accuracy, detail and finish is good, and way better than I achieved on my Wills kit based N7 from the days when kit or scratch building was the only way to a good 4mm model. The wagons I have purchased are good, and in the price range that was typical 10 years ago. Cannot comment on the coaches as they do not suit my modelling interest.

Then there is secondhand. A little patience and full price is not compulsory. Sometimes it takes a few years for the right item to turn up at a good price; my estimate is that since the price escalation really set in, about 50% of my purchases have been secondhand.

[Mountain]

To be honest the more people are financially finding themselves cutting back, the more the market will change to accomodate the budget market.

I do not mind budget as long as they have reliable motors that are up to the job and the gears and wheels are ok, then I am happy.

[Peterm]

I too agree with the op. I'm grateful that I doubt I'll be buying any more loco's or rolling stock, as I have just about everything that I need. In fact, I'm trying to sell some loco's, but it's difficult here in Oz.

[b308]

OK, I'll go against the grain, whilst I agree that prices are going up (but that doesn't just apply to model railways) but I don't think the model railway "world" will suddenly come to an end in 5 years time. those that can afford them will continue to buy the rest will make do with second hand or buy less than they are at the moment. Bigmet said something very relevant in that many manufacturers are following the money, the current manufacturing model is for limited runs (unlike in Triang and HD days when they just made loads at a time), but such an approach allows them to make money from the runs rather than have lots of surplus that they then have to discount in order to sell.

Detail is more difficult, people have been detailing RTR items since the early days, including the undersides, they are just doing what the market demands, for collectors and many modellers that's what they want, even if it isn't what you want. Someone mentioned Continental stock and the detail they have always had, I can remember in the 60s someone in our club having lots of Fleischman stock which I looked at jealously when comparing them with my crude by comparison Triang and HD. There's a "sweet spot" somewhere which would cover most modellers, I'd suggest it's somewhere between Railroad and the top end, but as I said it's one of those things which differs from person to person.

From a personal point of view I certainly wouldn't want to go back to 50s to 70s level of RTR models, we've come a long way from there and it would be a shame to go back to those days. We've had it very good over the past few decades, cheap, readily available RTR stock that is also well detailed, mainly due to cheap Chinese production, which has allowed people to buy lots of stock, now prices are rising we'll have to pick and choose and even cut back.

But model railways heading for it's "death"? No, definitely not!

[Bigmet]

...But model railways heading for it's "death"? No, definitely not!

So true. I didn't buy RTR OO from the mid 1960s on as a teenager, having been introduced to DIY modelling using kits and specialist component supplies. Most of those old DIY models still run today, alongside current RTR OO which is of matching appearance. So I know that if RTR OO supplies disappeared tomorrow, my active interest in railway modelling would plough on regardless, and friends various with 'the bug' would do the same.

Don't get me wrong, I have been very glad of the last twenty-some years RTR OO productions at the standard I aimed at by DIY; made possible by the 'transfusion' of well proven HO technique into OO productions. Now, here's the comparison I make: the Bachmann OO model that 'did it' for me was the WD Austerity 2-8-0 introduced in 1999 at £80. Hornby at the time were asking the same money for their mechanically inferior and less accurate tender drive 'push alongs'. (Similarly in diesel traction, Bachmann's centre motor class 24/25 was the same asking price as the dud ringfield bogie drive Lima and Hornby that rattled along dependent on traction tyres.)

To build that Austerity 2-8-0 to the same standard by DIY at the time would have been the thick end of £200, and the next loco class purchased, Bachmann's Peppercorn A1 pacific, which I recall retailing at £90, would definitely have cost over £200 by DIY. And that was over twenty years past! So to me, even at current prices RTR OO is economic, and I don't have the trouble of many hours careful work which I don't really enjoy overmuch: my main interest is in operating to timetable, and if someone else can be paid to run the loco, carriage and wagon works, that's great. (Which doesn't stop me looking for the keenest prices. )

[Byegad]

I used to be in a Wargames club, and fondly remember magazine articles and pub discussions bemoaning that Wargaming was becoming an 'old man's hobby. Twenty five years later they are still mentioning it but still new, younger players arrive. I suspect Railway Modelling will survive and as one indicator I cite the growing number of women getting involved.

[Free_at_last]

Don't look at the expensive models, they are intended for folk with more money than you.
A look in the likes of Hattons will show you can get new wagons for around £10.
It's like when shopping for a car, you don't look in the Ferrari showroom.

[GeraldH]

I've stopped buying new locos and rolling stock as I'd have to pay for detail that I'd barely notice and deal with the accompanying fragility. Some of this detail has caused me running issues and in some cases I've had to remove brake rodding, buffer beam pipes and even sandpipes that foul couplings and uncoupling ramps. Servicabililty and spares are also an issue. I wouldn't want to go back to flangeless drivers, traction tyres and tender drive though. For me the sweet spot is Mainline levels of detail with decent repairable mechanisms.

Collectors fairs are becoming attractive again with no Ebay taking their slice, no postage charges and some very cheap items if you look around a bit .