Standard 5mt, too slow

[markS&D]

Hi all. I have just purchased a 5mt 4-6-0, 73110 'The Red Knight', the model looks great. However it has a couple of issues. First off, it cannot reach what I would consider express speeds, with the controller full on, it looks to only do around 40-50 mph, which on my Seaton Junction layout really isn't fast enough. Secondly the tender wheels all appear to run out of true, causing an annoying up down and side to side tender wobble, not a great start!

Does anyone have an idea how i can fix these issues. The loco is currently running without a DCC chip fitted.

[21C1]

If this was a new model, you should take/send it back. If second hand then negotiate with the seller.

[Bigmet]

Let's take this in pieces, which is what you are going to have to do with the 5MT loco, if you are going to keep it!

...it cannot reach what I would consider express speeds, with the controller full on, it looks to only do around 40-50 mph...

Well recognised problem. Unless the previous owner has done any work on it, the leading bogie is oversprung and lifts the front end, the leading coupled wheel is softly sprung, the loco isn't that heavy so the driving wheels slip all the time, it's really only the rear coupled wheels that are providing traction. And then the final problem, it is geared 40:1 with a 'fat' worm: draggier than it needs to be, and great for slow speed control, but limits maximum speed.

What to do.
Take body off, remove front bogie, cut about one sixth off the bogie spring, and just use that small piece slightly stretched to lightly spring the bogie. (Keep the spring, it's good in pieces for other locos which have no bogie spring fitted!) Now the leading coupled wheel, take the sprung saddle out and either stretch the spring to near double the length, or find and fit a stiffer spring. On the chassis remove the plastic doodad for a decoder, and if you feel so inclined remove the decoder socket and its chassis attachment, pack in lead over the coupled wheels to improve adhesion. hardwire a decoder which can go into the smokebox void. (A faster motor, the Mashima 1426 can be substituted. You need a good worm puller as Bachmann worms are on TIGHT! There is though another way.)

You are now into the hell of putting the body back on, holding the various detail parts under the body void apart, as you slide it onto the mechanism; and the dire process of adjusting the speedo cable so the loco doesn't run like a three legged dog. (Bachmann dropped this detail after this model and the BR 2-6-4T, due to customer feedback.)

This mechanical stuff will enable the loco to both pull much better and achieve scale for 70-75 mph. Still not fast enough for me, so I used the DCC feature of increasing track voltage, so that there is 15V at the motor terminals. Consult your DCC system manual to see if this feature is available. This does the job on this loco and several other 'slugs', and I have operated this way for well over ten years now with not a hint of trouble. Extra traction, mine has lead sheet on the cab floor and curved to fit under the cab roof.

... the tender wheels all appear to run out of true, causing an annoying up down and side to side tender wobble...

Replace if retaining the item, Bachmann have a better spares service now, and I should think any of the BR tender wheels will do (not tested). If this sounds good I can check compatability with the class 4 2-6-0 and 9F tender wheelsets, to enable you to buy whatever is compatible that happens to be in stock. (If Bachmann have one weakness in spares support it is unwillingness to recognise comptabilities in their range, yet if you know what you are about all sorts of parts from 'A' can be used on 'B' and 'C'.)

(Appearance issue, this model should have a BR1F tender, and the upper side sheet 'roll over' was wrongly profiled with too sharp an angle, can be fixed by reshaping to a smooth curve. Bachmann subsequently got it right on the BR1F for the 9F .)

...Does anyone have an idea how i can fix these issues...

Finally, you may be aware that Bachmann have a re-release of the 5MT model announced, after a long time not available; big question, will they fix any of this?

When first released, it was right at the start of 'all new tooling, much better RTR OO made in China' and there were only about ten such locos available! (Bachmann 2251, 56xx, 57xx, N, WD 2-8-0, Std 5MT, Std 4 2-6-4T, A1, Class 24; Hornby MN) so most of us were very glad to have it or even positively grateful! ; a subject never previously available as a RTR model, and could be much improved with some work. Standards, and therefore expectations, have risen a lot in the 20 years since then...

[Bufferstop]

To give Bachmann their due, when they took on the locos from the Mainline range and took stock of the purchasers remarks they swiftly remotored the split chassis and made them available, perhaps not quite so freely for 'out of warranty' owners. Replacing the moulded half axles would have been a much longer task which they couldn't take on, hence the very slow job of replacing all of the split chassis designs. As others have said split chassis is, in theory, a sound design, it was Mainline's implementation of it that sucked.

[Bigmet]

To give Bachmann their due, when they took on the locos from the Mainline range and took stock of the purchasers remarks they swiftly remotored the split chassis and made them available, perhaps not quite so freely for 'out of warranty' owners. Replacing the moulded half axles would have been a much longer task which they couldn't take on, hence the very slow job of replacing all of the split chassis designs. As others have said split chassis is, in theory, a sound design, it was Mainline's implementation of it that sucked.

What was really sad in all this was that the supply of replacement split chassis mechanisms, which covered all the Mainline/Replica tooled steam models with loco drive, and the early unique to Bachmann split chassis releases; firstly didn't sell that well, and then - height of irony - became a rod to beat Bachmann with for not continuing this mechanism provision when the much superior 'blue riband' mechanisms were introduced! And then there was the ongoing confusion about which models had a split chassis and which never had, and bottom feeders muddying the water by buying a blue riband mechanism model and selling their old split chassis mechanism model in the new packaging claiming it was the current product, and some customers wary of Bachmann because they just weren't sure what they were getting. You really couldn't make it up...

[RFS]

I have both 73110 and 73082. The speed problem you have is I'm afraid characteristic of these locos, and is caused by the gearing ratio. I use DCC with Lenz Standard+ decoders, plus I also use automation with Traincontroller. You have to speed profile all locos for TC, and both of these register a scale top speed of 55 mph. I'm reasonably happy with this as I generally don't use them on express passenger trains, but I can understand your issue.

These are not split-chassis locos. Not had a problem with the tenders though.

[markS&D]

Thanks for the replies, I shall have to get handy with the screwdriver and follow the advice you have given, I did notice when I coupled the model to an 8 coach rake, that it appeared to be losing traction. Does the Mashima 1426 motor fit straight in, or is it major surgery?

The tender wheels I think I will replace. I intend to keep this model as the prototype 73110 was photographed on more than 1 occasion at Seaton Junction.

FB307AE9-5BD5-4E95-A509-BD3E27C7118E.jpeg

[Bigmet]

...Does the Mashima 1426 motor fit straight in...

I didn't do this on my own std 5's, but have seen it done. My own experience when replacing a Kader motor with the Mashima dimensional equivalent, sometimes they are tight, sometimes a little loose, in the old style plastic 'clip in' locator of the type the Std 5 has. Manufacturing variances in both products probably account for this, so a little shaving of the insides of the ends, or a piece of 10 thou plasticard as packing, as appropriate.

The way bigger problem is getting the worm off, they can be on like fury, I wrecked my old worm puller the first attempt and had to buy a beefier one from Eileen's Emporium. Worth enquiring of 'Branchlines' if you go the Mashima route, what with Mashimas being long out of production they may know of an equivalent, and possibly might be able to fit a worm. (Long time since I have dealt with them, but they were very good at this kind of thing.)

[markS&D]

Bit of an update. I followed your advice ‘Bigmet’ I removed the front bogie, and cut down the spring, I also removed the coupler arm, as I won’t be running tender first. I extended the spring on the leading driving axle. Finally I fitted a spare laisdcc chip that I had in the spares box.

I test ran the loco, (light engine) to my surprise, the speed has increased quite dramatically, although I was running the loco with the Hornby elite on analogue loco setting before, don’t know if that particularly matters?

I have ordered a replacement set of tender wheels from Bachmann, £16 including postage.

I haven’t added any extra weight to the loco yet, I want to see how it performs with these modifications and the new tender wheels fitted when they arrive.

[Bigmet]

...Finally I fitted a spare laisdcc chip that I had in the spares box. I test ran the loco, (light engine) to my surprise, the speed has increased quite dramatically, although I was running the loco with the Hornby elite on analogue loco setting before, don’t know if that particularly matters?...

That will make a difference. The biased DCC signal to run a DC loco is unlikely to provide 12V at the motor terminals. Sounds like you have a solution, provided the loco has enough traction for the heaviest train you want it to pull.

[Bigmet]

And here we are again, just returned from posting off one of the initial BR std 5MT releases (32-501, 73158) that an old friend we saw last week 'oop North' had recently bought s/h. I am as certain as one can be that this model has sat in a collection unused since purchase, box unopened, mechanism glued solid with dry grease. (Lots of the old thick and lumpy white stuff that was once the usual thing, with its distinctive smell like nappy rash ointment, what a trip down memory lane!)

Whatever it ran beautifully once cleaned up and relubricated, and with the springing adjusted had adequate traction and speed for the owner's purposes, as he 'doesn't do' mainline running...

Also got to see the new Caley 0-6-0 commissioned by RoS from Bachmann operating. There are a couple of clumsy infelicities on the cab and tender, (discussed at length on line), but the first is an easy fix with some wire, and the other will probably 'disappear' when treated to large dollop of LMS filth, which hasn't been cleaned off under BR(ScR). The owner operates an 0-6-0 charivari - he like me really likes the simplicity of what was for so long the most common wheel arrangement on the UK's railway - most of his locos are of this type, older models from kits, supplemented with all the current RTR OO 0-6-0s. So I will wait for a good price and then indulge...

[Bigmet]

Anyone bought either of the recent releases of this model, 32-510, 32-511?

I have read reports that it has had some 'attention' and performs better than the earlier releases, but nothing more in the way of detail about what has changed in the mechanism. What is visibly improved on 32-510 is the sidesheet profile of the BR1F tender, now properly 'rolled' at the top rather than an incorrect tighter bend between the vertical side and a flat upper section; presumably using the CAD from the 9F, which had a correctly profiled BR1F from the get go.