While my loco's are opened up for chipping I've been giving them a clean and service. I have a couple of 0-6-0's on an R2669 type chassis, the one where the motor and pick ups are all one unit and the wheels have a plastic centre.
Both seem to have an issue with power passing from the wheels to the pick ups on some wheels, power is reaching the back of the wheels and the pick ups are making good contact with the wheels, I've given everything a clean with ipa but the problem persists.
The only thing I can think of now is that some contacts are rubbing against the plastic part of the wheel not the metal rim.
Has anyone come across this problem. I'm wondering if there are suitable all metal wheels that I could use.
If all else fails and stalling is a problem I can fit a stay alive but I'd rather fix the problem than work round it.
Dave
Hornby 0-6-0, R2669 pick up issues
Re: Hornby 0-6-0, R2669 pick up issues
May I suggest just to try this option is to go into the programming mode and turn the decoders inertia off by setting it to its lowest value (E.g. zero). Not all DCC systems can access these areas so one may need to ask someone who has a system which can do this if your system doesn't. Also if that does not work, do the same for the back EMF setting to turrn it off.
These may not be the problem and the decoders may not even have these features, but it is common for these decoder features to give running problems if power is interupted. When these are turned off the loco should run the same as if it is on DC in that is may lack power for a fraction of a second but it will not do a dead stop like it will if running with the inertia on will do.
Inertia works ok in the newer all wheel pickup locos especially diesels with lots of wheels, but on small 4 or 6 wheel locos or older locos with less pickups it can be a pain...
I am wondering if there is a way to add extra pickups to the locos. Uitar strings are said to be nickel silver so can in theory be used as pick up wire I am told. On one loco I have I used strands of bicycle gear wire. Not ideal. When clean they work well as long as thd model is in regular use. If the model has not been run for a few months they meed cleaning all over again as they tarnish... So this is why I may end up changing them one day to nickel silver wire instead.
The only downside to extra pickups is added friction which can also be an issue and prevent locos from having good slow running speeds... One can really see the difference in the newer budget Hornby 0-4-0's in slow running where they used thinner wheel contacts. They may not last as long as the old ones but they can really crawl well, where the older ones were not as good in this way. Of course one can upgrade the older ones if one has the patience, or adjust the current pickups so they are just right to improve their slow speed running....
These may not be the problem and the decoders may not even have these features, but it is common for these decoder features to give running problems if power is interupted. When these are turned off the loco should run the same as if it is on DC in that is may lack power for a fraction of a second but it will not do a dead stop like it will if running with the inertia on will do.
Inertia works ok in the newer all wheel pickup locos especially diesels with lots of wheels, but on small 4 or 6 wheel locos or older locos with less pickups it can be a pain...
I am wondering if there is a way to add extra pickups to the locos. Uitar strings are said to be nickel silver so can in theory be used as pick up wire I am told. On one loco I have I used strands of bicycle gear wire. Not ideal. When clean they work well as long as thd model is in regular use. If the model has not been run for a few months they meed cleaning all over again as they tarnish... So this is why I may end up changing them one day to nickel silver wire instead.
The only downside to extra pickups is added friction which can also be an issue and prevent locos from having good slow running speeds... One can really see the difference in the newer budget Hornby 0-4-0's in slow running where they used thinner wheel contacts. They may not last as long as the old ones but they can really crawl well, where the older ones were not as good in this way. Of course one can upgrade the older ones if one has the patience, or adjust the current pickups so they are just right to improve their slow speed running....
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Re: Hornby 0-6-0, R2669 pick up issues
Most 0-6-0 locos have a minimum of four wheel pick up and some may use all six wheels.
Turn the loco upside down and visually check that each wiper is lightly pressing onto the rear face of its wheel. Also ensure that the wiper remains is continual contact with the wheel even when the wheel moves across the chassis sideways a little. If you have to adjust wiper tension use a fine nosed set of tweezers or long nosed pliers. But be very careful with any slight adjustments and ensure the wipe remains on the inner metal face of the wheel
Of course you should ensure the rim of each wheel, where the wiper rubs, is spotlessly clean as too should the inside face of the wiper be too. I use a fibre pencil to clean these areas. Then a little wipe over on the wheels inner metal surface with a cotton bud dampened in IPA (Isopropanol Alcohol) 99.9% type.
I think this service sheet is for your loco? [url]file:///C:/Users/brian/OneDrive/Desktop/hss_348_0-6-0_modified.pdf[/url]
Turn the loco upside down and visually check that each wiper is lightly pressing onto the rear face of its wheel. Also ensure that the wiper remains is continual contact with the wheel even when the wheel moves across the chassis sideways a little. If you have to adjust wiper tension use a fine nosed set of tweezers or long nosed pliers. But be very careful with any slight adjustments and ensure the wipe remains on the inner metal face of the wheel
Of course you should ensure the rim of each wheel, where the wiper rubs, is spotlessly clean as too should the inside face of the wiper be too. I use a fibre pencil to clean these areas. Then a little wipe over on the wheels inner metal surface with a cotton bud dampened in IPA (Isopropanol Alcohol) 99.9% type.
I think this service sheet is for your loco? [url]file:///C:/Users/brian/OneDrive/Desktop/hss_348_0-6-0_modified.pdf[/url]
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Re: Hornby 0-6-0, R2669 pick up issues
Thanks for the suggestions Mountain. I haven't run them on DCC yet, when I ran them on DC I noticed they stalled slightly on points but did keep going so when converting them it was time to sort out any issues.
Strangely it's one wheel on each train, when I put the meter on the wheel rim and inside of the wheel it reads fine, put the meter on the wheel and the pickup, no reading but the pick up is in contact with the back of the wheel.
There are six pickups in all, one on each wheel so I'm assuming the problem is when crossing points a good wheel drops slightly raising the other good wheel off the track and leaving the wheel that doesn't pick up in contact with the track. All my little 0-4-0's run over the points faultlessly so I don't think my track laying is the culprit.
It's a very small issue which as I said can be overcome easily with a stay alive and there is plenty of room to fit one, and might not even happen if the Zimo decoder keeps it going an extra mm or two but it's bugging me what the problem is and I suspect other people running these trains will have the same problem so it would be good to find an answer.
Dave
Strangely it's one wheel on each train, when I put the meter on the wheel rim and inside of the wheel it reads fine, put the meter on the wheel and the pickup, no reading but the pick up is in contact with the back of the wheel.
There are six pickups in all, one on each wheel so I'm assuming the problem is when crossing points a good wheel drops slightly raising the other good wheel off the track and leaving the wheel that doesn't pick up in contact with the track. All my little 0-4-0's run over the points faultlessly so I don't think my track laying is the culprit.
It's a very small issue which as I said can be overcome easily with a stay alive and there is plenty of room to fit one, and might not even happen if the Zimo decoder keeps it going an extra mm or two but it's bugging me what the problem is and I suspect other people running these trains will have the same problem so it would be good to find an answer.
Dave
Re: Hornby 0-6-0, R2669 pick up issues
I was typing when you replied Flashbang.
I've done everything you suggest, the wipers appear to make contact when the wheels are moved side to side but even with the wheel pressed against them I'm not getting anything on the meter and it's odd that it is one wheel on each loco.
I'm going to see what happens when I run it on dcc, it may well be OK, but it's bugging me.
The service sheet is number 348, class 0-6-0
Dave
I've done everything you suggest, the wipers appear to make contact when the wheels are moved side to side but even with the wheel pressed against them I'm not getting anything on the meter and it's odd that it is one wheel on each loco.
I'm going to see what happens when I run it on dcc, it may well be OK, but it's bugging me.
The service sheet is number 348, class 0-6-0
Dave
Last edited by heda on Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Hornby 0-6-0, R2669 pick up issues
Ensure your points are laying dead flat throughout the points length. If necessary pin down the middle of the point too.
Stay alive will help but you really need to find the real cause and correct it. Even if necessary changing points to electrofrog to give 100% running!
Stay alive will help but you really need to find the real cause and correct it. Even if necessary changing points to electrofrog to give 100% running!
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Re: Hornby 0-6-0, R2669 pick up issues
Keep in mind that these mechanisms are from Hornby's heap of legacy tooling. Rationally there has to be an insulator between a metal tyre and a metal wiper to prevent conduction. I think you are on the right track considering the plastic wheel centres the cause: a worn moulding tool resulting in an over thick wheel centre moulding may do enough to just hold the wiper off the wheel back.heda wrote:...I've done everything you suggest, the wipers appear to make contact when the wheels are moved side to side but even with the wheel pressed against them I'm not getting anything on the meter and it's odd that it is one wheel on each loco.
I am all for trying a simple solution, go round the inside wheelface with a sharp blade, see if you can 'shave' any plastic off to make it flush with the back of the metal tyre. I did this on a 'Smokey Joe' with dodgy pick up some years ago, and it made it into a reliable runner. (Quite recently it same back with loose tyres on two wheels, these were quickly superglued into place.)
Re: Hornby 0-6-0, R2669 pick up issues
That sounds quite feasible Bigmet, it is an issue of wheelback / wiper on both loco's and they are 'budget' chassis.
The wheelsets are easy to remove as there held in place by the baseplate so when I'm in the mood to take another look I'll drop the wheels out, see if there's any sign of where the wiper has been making contact and see if the plastic is sitting proud.
Dave
The wheelsets are easy to remove as there held in place by the baseplate so when I'm in the mood to take another look I'll drop the wheels out, see if there's any sign of where the wiper has been making contact and see if the plastic is sitting proud.
Dave