Flashbang's website diagram?

Basic electrical and electronics, such as DC/Analog control.
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End2end
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Flashbang's website diagram?

Postby End2end » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:58 am

Flashbang is there a problem with your website?
I can only seem to view it using the waybackmachine but even then no pictures show up.
Thanks
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Last edited by End2end on Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flashbang's website diagram

Postby Roger (RJ) » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:25 pm

It's working for me.

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Re: Flashbang's website problem?

Postby End2end » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:02 pm

Thanks for checking Roger. :wink:
I restarted my pc and now all seems fine. Must have been at my end.
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Re: Flashbang's website problem?

Postby End2end » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:30 pm

I've scoured Flashbang's website and for the life of me I cannot find a diagram called "Panel Indicators - Using Seep PM 1 or PM 4 motors With one wire to panel"
Has it been removed?
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Re: Flashbang's website problem?

Postby Flashbang » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:25 am

End2end wrote:I've scoured Flashbang's website and for the life of me I cannot find a diagram called "Panel Indicators - Using Seep PM 1 or PM 4 motors With one wire to panel"
Has it been removed?
Thanks
End2end

No, Its here https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/images/Point%20Switching%20Ind-single%20wire.gif.... Page three of the Electrical section under the sub heading of "Point Indications", and towards the bottom part of that section .. https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical-Page-3.html#pointindications :D :D

N on a Seep will be pad 'D' (or 'E') and R will be 'E' (or 'D') while 'F' pad goes to the panel. Note: Bracketed D or E depends on which way around the Seep motor is installed to allow 'F' to make to the Normal - straight ahead or major route, which can be either D or E.
[Image << Click the Icon to go to my website
Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

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Re: Flashbang's website problem?

Postby End2end » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:15 am

Thanks Flashbang. Unfortunately none of them match the picture I saved.
Would you mind if I add the picture I saved to this post?. I don't want to infringe your ©.
I'm sure it's one of yours the way it looks and the text font is the same.
I will remove it once you have seen it.
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Re: Flashbang's website problem?

Postby Flashbang » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:28 pm

No post away :D
[Image << Click the Icon to go to my website
Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

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Re: Flashbang's website problem?

Postby End2end » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:45 pm

Thanks Flashbang. :)
It's this diagram

I wanted to read the text that goes with that diagram to maybe understand it a little more.

My confusion lies in how to wire up more than one LED for either direction on the control panel using the 1 wire to panel method and also whether I can rig up a Dapol semaphore signal to the circuit (with 2 LED's) to change when I change the point.

I'm using mainly PM1's although some point motors on sets of paired points are PM20 surface mount motors with only 3 wires so the control panel LED's will need to be controlled by the paired point motor which will be a PM1 on any set of paired points.

Accept for 4 separate sidings that split into 2 (making 8 dead end sidings). They all have PM20 surface mount motors so I'm not sure how I can / will wire those up for control panel indication as yet due to them only having 3 wires.
I hope that all makes sense. :?
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Re: Flashbang's website problem?

Postby Flashbang » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:04 pm

E2E Your questions answered...
If you want additional LEDs, then wire them together with their series resistor across the ones already shown.

You cannot operate a Dapol signal from this circuit. The Dapol signal requires on its two Yellow wires, to be connected to a volt free contact. This can only be obtained by a totally separate set of contacts. Such as a Gaugemaster GM500 operated by the feed to the motors and then the Dapol signal yellow wires to one set of its contacts.

PM20 has no means of point position/contact proving. Therefore again a GM500 or a home built twin coil Latching relay would provide a pair of electrically separate contacts. One set used for Dapol signals and the other for whatever is required - Panel indications or colour light signals etc.
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Re: Flashbang's website diagram.

Postby End2end » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:06 pm

Yes sorry, that was more to double check if there was a problem. Now hopefully that should change the title. :wink:
Just digesting your reply.
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GM500 + Dapol Semaphore + LED panel indication

Postby End2end » Sat May 08, 2021 8:08 pm

I have been looking at the GM500 relay and how I could implement it for both control panel indicator LED's AND a dapol semaphore signal as I am not using it to power a points frog.
Hopefully giving me both circuits to work with.

Below as an example shows:
A colour light signal on one circuit
A point and it's frog connected to the other circuit.
GM500wd.JPG
GM500wd.JPG (33.26 KiB) Viewed 264 times


But I seem to have run into conflicting information for powering a dapol semaphore signal (rather than the colour light signal shown in the diagram).

Here it says "16vAC power supply. (not 12DC under any circumstances)"
https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gaug ... g-question

Yet on the official dapol paperwork that came with the loose signals I bought it says:
"We recommend using a 12vDC stabilised power supply. The signal will also operate from a 9vDC battery and accept AC power up to 14vAC"

You can see where my confusion lies. :?

Also in the diagram, the colour light signal shows 3 wires connected to 4,5 and 6 whereas the dapol semaphore signals I've got have 4 wires (red / Black and 2 x yellow)

Does anyone know, are both circuits (1,2,3, and 4,5,6) on the GM500 electrically separate or connected together somehow?

If the power supply input for the signal (connected to point 4 in the above diagram) is connected to both circuits on the GM500 (Either as standard (see above), or via an added jumper wire soldered from one circuit to the other on the GM500 itself.), and the dapol semaphore signal does indeed use 12vDC, then I can power BOTH the semaphore signal circuit AND the control panel LED's circuit using my existing 12v lighting bus.
If not I can always connect both circuits separately to the 12v lighting bus
I hope that makes sense.

I'm not sure whether the GM500 would be located near the point and semaphore signal under the layout or at the control panel end of things as yet.
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Re: Flashbang's website diagram?

Postby Flashbang » Sat May 08, 2021 9:21 pm

The two set of contacts on the GM500 are totally separate electrically.

The Dapol signal has 14v AC or 12v Regulated DC feed directly to it (not to the GM500) The two signals yellow wires connect to one set of unused GM500 relay contacts. One yellow on 4 (or 1) and the other on 5 then link 5 to 6 as well (or 2 and link 2 to 3 with 1). Then every time the GM500 relay operates or releases the signal will operate one way or the other. The GM500 relay changing states should give an enough contact break time to allow the signal to change state.
Note you do not have to have momentary contacts on the yellow wires. Also you MUST NOT allow any voltage to reach the yellow wires.

You can use the 12v DC supply to also feed LED panel indications but the 12v MUST feed to the other set of GM 500 contacts (assuming these are not used for electrofrog point switching) 12v Negative goes direct to the panel and all LED Cathode resistors Positive to GM500 1 and then two wires from 2 & 3 to the panel and LED Anodes.

GM500 and Dapol.jpg
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Re: GM500 + Dapol Semaphore + LED panel indication

Postby End2end » Sat May 08, 2021 9:53 pm

Flashbang wrote:The Dapol signal has 16 v AC feed directly to it (not to the GM500)


Sorry this link didn't work properly which may have confused things.
The info I was referring to is down a couple of posts showing the actual Dapol information posted which doesn't match mine in terms of the power needed for the semaphore rather than any power requirements to do with the GM500
End2end wrote:Here it says "16vAC power supply. (not 12DC under any circumstances)"
https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gaug ... g-question

As mentioned, My Dapol paperwork says
"We recommend using a 12vDC stabilised power supply. The signal will also operate from a 9vDC battery and accept AC power up to 14vAC"
So both are from Dapol for the exact same type of signal yet say different things. Confusing. :? :lol:

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Re: Flashbang's website diagram?

Postby Flashbang » Sat May 08, 2021 10:00 pm

You can use either AC or DC.
If you use DC ensure its a Regulated power supply (CCTV or LED PSUs are ideal) then the 12v DC can also be used to feed LED panel indications. But on no circumstances allow any voltage to get onto the Yellow Dapol wires.

The GM500 operation has to be from a momentary supply usually via a CDU. This must not be intermixed with any switching circuit the GM500 may perform.
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Re: Flashbang's website diagram?

Postby End2end » Sat May 08, 2021 10:38 pm

Thanks for that Flashbang.
I didn't realise you were still editing your reply until I previewed my response. So I ended my last post quickly to re-read all you wrote. ;)

So by using a GM500 for the semaphore AND the LED panel indicators it will work by using them as separate circuits (1,2,3 and 4,5,6), both circuits with a feed from my 12vDC bus wire that is already installed to power them.
One 12vDC power feed direct to the semaphore, the other 12vDC power feed direct to the other circuit (2 and 3) on the GM500.
The same as with my other PM1 connected control panel LED's.
Brilliant. :mrgreen:

For the control panel LED's can the '1 wire back to panel' method still be used direct from the GM500 as they will be powered by my 12vDC bus?
I'm assuming that single wire would be soldered to 1 on the GM500 when using the 1,2,3 numbered circuit?

I think I understand the GM500 better now. :)
It's almost like a PM1 but instead of one extra separate independent circuit linked to point motor position, it's 2.
Thanks
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