All things paint!

[Geordie088]

Good morning.

As a nearly newbie I'm after a little more guidance. I've made a good start on my new layout. Made some scratch built stations, inclines and a decent large round the room set up. However, I've now got to the bit I dread. The finer detail and painting stuff.

I am a total non art type of person and really struggle with the intricate stuff. So I am looking for some advice on which paints to use on which items. Clearly I'm aware there are loads of paints, but without buying loads of them to try out I am at a dead end.

Three examples of my dilemma are as follows.

1. I wanted to buy some Knightwing models but realised they needed painting, my worst nightmare. So, what type of paint would you use on this type of model? I was looking at the fuel point model.

2. Seems really simple, but what would you recommend for painting lines on MDF or chipboard. I have used this wood for baseboards and platforms and want to paint yellow and white lines on them.

3. I have several packs of model scene stuff. Station sign boards, fences etc. So, what would you recommend for this type of plastic model.

Finally, do I need to get some decent brushes or can I make do with cheapy ones?

Just to note, I'm looking at modelling in the network south east era.

Any help would be really appreciated as this is my real Achilles heal!

Thank you.

[Bigmet]

From one very inexpert painter to another.

1 and 3. Models are best painted with the specialist colours from various makers, choice of three forms.
Enamels, spirit based
Acrylic, water based
Spray paint.

Application of the first two by brush for small area coverage and detail painting. Good brushes are well worthwhile for even coverage and precision application. Do not apply enamels over acrylics, or orange peel and like effects can occur. I think it simplest to just choose one type and stick with it.

For area coverage spray cans come into their own, or if you become advanced in the art, use of an air brush (miniature paint sprayer) to apply either of the first two,

With all these techniques it may be advisable to use a primer for two reasons. Firstly better paint adhesion, and secondly if the model is made from very differently coloured materials, a more uniform finished appearance results.

I will be honest, one of the greatest attractions of RTR for me is no painting required. None of that tedious process of maskings and applications and waiting around. (I can make models worse by adding dirt and weathering to represent in service condition, that bit I can do decently!) If I cannot finish a kit or self build by spraying on single colours over large areas, then I don't go there at all...

As for 2, definitely prime it first to seal the surface completely. More than that I don't know. (A friend built some speaker cabinets from MDF and painted them directly with domestic emulsion paint. Hideous, nothing adhered properly, overpainting made it worse, and he ended up having to build new replacments.

[Bufferstop]

I'm not a great worker with paint brushes, or spray cans, but then I look at what robots can do on a production line, think about all I know about the robotics side of computers and decide if a bunch of dumb machines can do that when someone has worked it out for them, I should be able to work out what to do myself.
So I have a set of rules
Break down any painting jobs into a set of simple steps.
Do each step and stop.
Put it away - do the next step later.
Use masking tape to protect the earlier steps.
Remember the three foot rule, "If you can't tell the difference at three feet, no one else can."
Have the correct thinners and solvents available to repair any mistakes and clean up when you've finished.
Always practice on a bit of scrap.
Try you may surprise yourself.

[Geordie088]

Thanks for the advice and tips guys. Always helpful.

I have got this distant dream of possibly owning a paint sprayer, but not even thinking about it until I know for certain if the hobby will continue or I take a hammer to it in frustration!!

I’m still kind of wondering which paint to use on which material. So, if I have a plastic model, such as a retaining wall, station sign etc what paint is best? I’m guessing I prime it as suggested. What paint is best after this? Do certain paints “stick” better than others or get a better finish?

[flying scotsman123]

Once you've put a primer of some kind on it doesn't really matter what sort of paint you use on what surface, that's what the primer is there for. Most people have a preference for either enamel or acrylic. I recall pointing you towards phoenix paints for NSE colours before. Phoenix paints are all enamel, so if you go with them it's usually simplest to stick with enamel paints - humbrol and revell tinlets are also enamel as well so hose can be used too. But if you find you have some acrylic colours that are a better match for what you're doing, then use those, just try not to mix different types of paint on the same model, at least not without testing first.
As for brushes, cheapo brushes have their place, but usually for messy jobs where precision and a smooth finish doesn't matter! My choice of the moment for brushes is www.abcbrushes.com/, they sell packs with a variety of different sizes which is usually the best value way of going about things.

[Geordie088]

Ah yes, you did point me towards Phoenix paints and I did get some which I'm experimenting with at the minute. I have applied paint to plastic models and its never looked that great, but I've not used a primer. I have on a base board but not on plastic.

With this advice I will get a primer and begin testing out. I have got a set of cheap brushes but they dont seem great. The bristles keep dropping out!! Thanks for the heads up re brushes. I'll treat myself and get some reasonable ones.

Thanks again.

[flying scotsman123]

Ah yes, you did point me towards Phoenix paints and I did get some which I'm experimenting with at the minute. I have applied paint to plastic models and its never looked that great, but I've not used a primer. I have on a base board but not on plastic.

With this advice I will get a primer and begin testing out. I have got a set of cheap brushes but they dont seem great. The bristles keep dropping out!! Thanks for the heads up re brushes. I'll treat myself and get some reasonable ones.

Thanks again.

I don't normally bother priming plastic before painting with phoenix paints, so I suspect in this case its your brushes that're causing the problems, if the bristles are falling out, they're definitely too cheap! I sometimes find that phoenix paints benefit from having two ever so slightly thinned coats brushed on, rather than try for 100% coverage on the first go using it neat, especially as they're quite fast drying this does seem to help.

[Geordie088]

Ah ok. I’ll look to get some decent ish brushes and try again. I’m going to try some more paints so will get a couple of different types and try with the new brushes and see how I get on.
Thanks again.

[End2end]

Apart from grey spray can primer I only use acrylics. Enamels are just too much of a faff for me and take longer to clean up. I will say I don't paint or line rolling stock except for the odd bit of weathering.

One thing not yet mentioned is METHODS.
Full paint, dry brushing, daubing etc. All these make a great difference to your finished article.
Here's a picture of a free kit I got with a magazine with 3 of the painting techniques - all have first been primed with a grey spray can. All other colours are acrylics.

Roof - Full paint then daubed with a dry-ish brush with a slightly different shade.
Front and walls - Thinned paint to run into the mortar lines then drybrushed final layer colours on top.
Floor and supports - Full paint.
Hope it helps.
Thanks
End2end

[Geordie088]

Wow, cheers for that E2E. That is a really good demo of techniques. I will try an acrylic paint too to see how I get on with it. The finish looks really good on your example. If I paint anything it is just one big horrible block of colour with no texture or depth at all. Looks like I need to experiment with technique as well!!
Thank you.

[End2end]

My pleasure Geordie088. It's amazing how daubing a bit of paint on something can really change it.
Here's my venerable, been in the range forever, repainted Hornby platform shelter from the garish plasticky yellow, using watered down paint to get into all the nooks and crannies as well as full paint to resemble something much more decent for the layout.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=48176&p=613602&hil ... er#p613602
It will need a little weathering down at some point.

The only "specialist" paints I bought were Railmatch "sleeper grime" for the track sides and a Revell / Humbrol for skin colour.
The majority of my paints come from Wilko's normal acrylic range. Cheap as chips and easy to wash out / up afterwards as they are water based.
The platform shelter is "Burnt Umber" for the brown and "Biscuit Crunch" for the cream to make it look GWR-ish. I've used these 2 colours throughout as my railway colour scheme so nothing will look out of place overall.
Also I don't use an airbrush. I'd probably only use it to weather rolling stock anyway.
Thanks
End2end

[End2end]

One other tip I can give....
Lighting. If your going to install internal lighting in your buildings give the internal walls a couple of GOOD COATS OF FULL BLACK PAINT FIRST!
This will stop light leakage. A lot of the plastic kits leak light like a fishing net leaks water.
Then paint the walls with a reflective colour, white, cream etc to bounce the light around inside.
As can be seen on my platform shelter above, the office, although bright inside leaks no light.

If you take a quick scroll through my layout thread (no need to read the text unless you want to) you can see all the buildings I have built with lighting, both from kits and Linka and some frame's/lighting rigs I have made up to fit inside pre-made buildings.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=48176&start=120#p595647
Thanks
End2end

Edited link - Buildings start on page 9 of my layout thread.

[Geordie088]

Whoa! Cheers for that E2E.....I think!?!? The shelter looks fab. Really smart. It makes me laugh though as I had a spare one of those and tried a similar project. It didn’t quite come out with such good results. Honestly, it looked like a 3 year old had done it!! I would show you a picture of it but I’m not sure I’d be allowed back on these pages again!!
Some great stuff you’ve given me there, thank you. I notice you’ve also commented on another link regarding shops. I need to get in to one and actually look at stuff as at the minute I’m guessing a bit and trying to pick up the right things off amazon etc. It’s quite hard knowing what a brush is like or a paint colour unless you can physically see it.
Really appreciate your help though. If I manage to make something respectable I’ll let you know!

[End2end]

It makes me laugh though as I had a spare one of those and tried a similar project. It didn’t quite come out with such good results. Honestly, it looked like a 3 year old had done it!!

Oh you mean like this!

The first layers.
I will say undercoating EVERYTHING with grey spray paint gives a good key for all the other layers on top and makes the little details pop out for you to see to paint them. Again I reiterate, don't always reach for full paint. I find getting into the nooks and crannies (like the notice board on the shelter above) is best done with many thinned layers of paint rather than one thick layer.
If using acrylics, the thinner is just water so doesn't take long to dry but MAKE SURE IT IS LEFT TO DRY FULLY BEFORE YOU PAINT THE NEXT LAYER!
Hope it helps.
Thanks
End2end