Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

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joshv8
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Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby joshv8 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:49 pm

I had an ebay purchase which came today and couldn't be happier. The seller who was not a train enthusiast was selling a small OO engine and 2 wagons, but knew nothing about them. From an estate sale perhaps.
When I was very young my father bought me a book called ' The world of model trains' thats well used now and I used to love this image of a Ks kits Johnson 0-4-0. Heres the book page:
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Looking at the photos thats it I thought, the Ks kit and peco wagons. So I bought it and it was extremely well priced. Somebody loved this, it's well made and was wrapped in foam in an old cigar box along with 2 pieces of what seems to be triang track. The covered wagon is marked peco, both wagons have moving leaf springs. They're well detailed. Hopefully some of the good folk here can confirm the identity of these pieces. Perhaps even have some history and be able to identify couplings etc. I need to re-fix the cab roof on the engine but otherwise its quite good.
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Bigmet
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Re: Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby Bigmet » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:46 pm

The loco is a real score. Neatly assembled and well finished. Hope it runs as well as it looks. There won't be many here with that model on their layout.

The wagon's were standard items in Peco's 'Wonderful Wagons' range. If not already aware the body sides are printed cardboard. So, protect from damp, and if you really want to weather dry powder is best. Apply any paint and that is effectively permanent, very difficult to remove without damaging the print. They were made to accept Peco's 'Simplex' coupler, which was the coupler that Hornby-Dublo then licenced from Peco for their post war OO production.

Peco persisted with their coupler long after H-D had gone extinct and the tension lock coupler was standard in OO RTR, (time moves very slowly in Pecoworld, they probably hadn't noticed) and by 1970 better polystyrene kit wagons which were lighter, cheaper, free rolling, and offered far more subject choice, were brutally elbowing them aside. I never built one myself ('Big Four' period wagons not suitable for BR modelling) but probably still have a half doz 'somewhere' that were given to me way back by a friend going N. I took the nice metal wheelsets out, turned pinpoints on the axles and used them under Ian Kirk plastic wagon kits which came without wheels...

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joshv8
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Re: Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby joshv8 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:27 am

Thanks Bigmet.

I hadnt noticed the wagons were card. They're embossed so look like a plastic moulding and are quite hard but yes, seems theyre like a heavily pressed cardboard. Actually quite impressive and the detail was quite good.

I haven't had a chance to run the engine yet but at a guess has been sitting a while so ill give her a clean and drop of oil.

I do enjoy the old kit built locos. I think remembering these from as a boy gets me a little excited so its been a welcome to add them to our small collection.

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6C
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Re: Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby 6C » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:01 am

That's a little belter - used around MR works, Gloucester docks and Staveley (MR) works 8)
Pete

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Lysander
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Re: Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby Lysander » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:17 am

Depending upon the age of your wagons, the body will either be constructed from pieces of thin wood ply or a one piece metal casting. In either case, embossed card overlays would have then been attached with something like impact adhesive. They can be reattached with care if they are coming away - the corners are usually where the the fraying starts.

Peco Wonderful Wagons are part of our model railway heritage although much snubbed today, sadly. Who else in the late ‘50s supplied models with accurate liveries, sprung buffers and a crude but functional form of compensation?

Tony
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Bufferstop
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Re: Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:35 pm

You don't have to enlarge the photos much to see the Peco couplers between them. You can only say "they were of their time". The wonderful Peco underframe probably highlighted the couplers problem better than any RTR wagon of the time. The horns of the couplers had to slide over each other, the metal they were made of had so much friction that you could chase a wagon all the way to the buffer stops before the couplers would close. By comparison the Tensionlock only needed to raise a very light hook then gravity did the rest. There still isn't an automatic coupler that looks like anything seen in the real world, but those chassis with working springs and buffers were a delight. I have two of them that I built from kits found at a swap meet. I don't think anyone know what they were.
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Re: Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby Dublo » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:36 pm

Hello all
How are these wagon kits to build ? Are they still in production ? Looking on ebay there are 32 listings for these kits. I'm thinking about taking the p!unge.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:18 pm

No the Peco wagon kits just faded into obscurity and disappeared, you could get the chassis kits for a bit longer and you'll regularly find one or more with really scruffy looking packaging in the boxes of "mixed items" Peco have now taken on the production and distribution of the Parkside range of wagon kits, which sits well into their market.
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Re: Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby Lysander » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:35 am

They are easy enough to build and unbuilt kits come with instructions in any case. You’ll need a sharp scalpel to cut / trim the nylon-type plastic that makes up the chassis. Ditch the wheels and use modern Bachmann or Hornby wagon wheels. Take care cutting and fitting the card end pieces as accuracy is essential there.

I attached the card sides and ends with impact adhesive. You could also use PVA.

All in all, quite easy. But don’t pay too much - some clowns are asking ludicrous prices out there!

Tony
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Lysander
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Re: Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby Lysander » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:34 am

Just to quietly highjack this thread for a while, the Craven Llewelyn wagons shown below are from the first series issued by Peco in the early '50s. They have very thin wooden sides and also came with card overlays for the solebars, something which Peco sadly abandoned not long after. This wagon is one of the most difficult to find now as, for some reason [poor sales maybe?], it was never reissued. I had been looking for one for many years and the one on the right I bought via ebay. The other belonged to a deceased friend and awaits light restoration.

If you think about what Hornby Dublo was producing at the same time, these must have seemed light years ahead. They were fairly expensive in their day though.

Image

Finally, two much later productions. The Bass van was built up from the kit and the Worthington van was bought built, but in a very poor state. It was carefully dismantled and restored. Both have after-market wheels running in brass bearings and roll freely.

Image

Image

The card overlays are easy enough to apply, but great care must be taken to ensure that the end pieces, where they fold over onto the sides [look at the vans above], are absolutely square [particularly if the strapping is a different colour]. It's not difficult though.

You might not want to construct a whole rake of these wagons, but a few do add variety.

Tony
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alex3410
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Re: Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby alex3410 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:50 am

Thats a lovely little loco, have to say i am rather jealous :lol:

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Bufferstop
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Re: Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:07 am

The nylon wheels supplied by Peco at the time were far superior to the metal wheels available. they were the first commercially available pinpoint axles and a well constructed Peco kit would roll on the most minute gradient. I don't jnow what condition the nylon would be in today but I doubt anyone will find a complete unmade wagon kit. The production of the chassis minus wheels went on for a long time after the wagons had been withdrawn. I knew a chap who had constructed several before he had built his baseboard. The first one put onto his yard of flexible track promptly rolled off the end then off the surface of the baseboard. That was when he borrowed my father's yard long spirit level and could just make out the degree of slope. He'd been using a short furniture makers level.
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Lysander
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Re: Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby Lysander » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:34 am

I have only ever seen one boxed unmade kit from the first series Bufferstop. It was a Craven Llewelyn model and sold for £30 - far more than I was prepared to pay (then or now!). I am still looking though.....

Tony
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Bigmet
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Re: Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby Bigmet » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:07 pm

The examples I was given have all been 'looted' for their decent parts. Wheelsets for pinpointing, the neat turned buffers transplanted into whitemetal stocks and sprung, the excellent pressed steel W irons onto other vehicles, brake gear here, there and everywhere. A couple lost their card coverings slowly; whatever adhesive had been used to attach them to the metal and plastic substrate made the card stained at first and then crumble away. But the bodies of the Tarmac five plank mineral, ICI salt wagon and Blue Circle Cement, Stuart and Carrick vans, were all in decent nick last time I saw them.

Bufferstop wrote:The nylon wheels supplied by Peco at the time were far superior to the metal wheels available. they were the first commercially available pinpoint axles and a well constructed Peco kit would roll on the most minute gradient...

Sadly Peco totally lost the plot when they started putting Jackson wheelsets in their kits. These had a near hemispherical axle end, which located in a matching (loose) pressed brass cup. Very close to a slack parallel bearing, and as free rolling in small scale as you would expect.

By the time I had moved on to kit and scratch building rolling stock; first via the club, and then commercially, production of pinpoint axle wheelsets with matching coned brass bearings had begun and vehicles so equipped rolled away on what had once been regarded as level sections. (Hilariously at one exhibition, where the floor proved far from level, and the adjustment on the layout supports was insufficient to fully compensate. We had to explain the slow running in the up direction as the result of a track possession in the next - out of sight - section, as otherwise we couldn't get most of the trains supposed to be stopping to actually do so in the station.)

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joshv8
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Re: Would like some help identifying Ks johnson 0-4-0? Peco wagons

Postby joshv8 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:21 pm

6C wrote:That's a little belter - used around MR works, Gloucester docks and Staveley (MR) works 8)

Ahhh I had wondered where shecwould have been used! Thanks for the info.


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