A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

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RedRockValley
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A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby RedRockValley » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:45 pm

Hello everyone, thanks to admin for allowing me in, I'm after some help/advice as I want to solder some connecting wires to improve our basic track layout that I'm building for my 8yr old son.

A basic overview before I present my diagram. We've created an oval track, with a set of points to create a siding going inside the oval, however we've also put another set of points on it to create a smaller siding running parallel to the oval.

At the moment we're using the standard track connector that came with a Bachmann train set, at position 'B'. everything works fine but there's no power to siding rail marked 'A'. we've already built a lot of scenery, ballast etc so are looking to get that unsightly connector off the layout.

I'm assuming that if I created wiring positions as seen here with red circles on outer rails and black circles on inners (not necessarily on every position marked, but at least on the 'crucial' rails like 'A', 'B', 'C' and maybe a few others), I would get a good connection across the whole circuit.

My post here is to determine whether I'm right, or completely off the mark, so apologies to the most experienced amongst you if this seems like such a basic task, we all have to start somewhere, right?!!

As an extra aside, we've built this layout to fold away against the wall of my son's bedroom, I'll look forward to posting pics as our little project progresses.

looking forward to help and advice, thank you!
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End2end
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Re: A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby End2end » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:49 pm

Are you running DC or DCC as the advice would probably be different in each case?
Thanks
End2end

EDIT: Apologies.... I also meant to say... Welcome to the forum. :)
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RedRockValley
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Re: A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby RedRockValley » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:53 pm

Thank you. Its an extremely basic layout - analogue controller? My plan at this stage is to just continue using the Bachmann controller that came with our set, a quick look suggests its the BACHMANN 36-560.

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End2end
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Re: A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby End2end » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:08 pm

OK a quick amature answer is, as it's DC I think you may need to create isolated sections.
So (in the case of B being the only power point connected to the actual oval of track at this time (not including the sidings)....
The point into road C from the main oval carries power from the oval but once switched away from the main oval it will lose power.
Then using a switch to change power over from the main oval onto power connection point C you will have power leading into road A, but ONLY if the point is thrown from road C into road A. (This is with no power connection on road A)
So let's say you have a loco sitting on road A, it will not move until you throw the point to road A AND the power switch to section C (so the main oval becomes unpowered).
I hope that makes sense. :?
You may be able to make a power connection to road A but I don't honestly see the point (if you'll excuse the pun :D )
Other more experienced members (once they read your thread) will flesh out the details better.
Thanks
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heda
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Re: A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby heda » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:21 pm

That looks fine as you will be supplying power to each section of track.
If you ever consider running more than one train you would need to add 'isolating sections' so you could park a train in the siding whist running another round the oval. An isolating section is simply a section of track that can have the power on or off through a switch.
You'll find a lot of useful information regarding electrics here.
https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/
Dave

RedRockValley
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Re: A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby RedRockValley » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:31 pm

heda wrote:That looks fine as you will be supplying power to each section of track.
If you ever consider running more than one train you would need to add 'isolating sections' so you could park a train in the siding whist running another round the oval. An isolating section is simply a section of track that can have the power on or off through a switch.
You'll find a lot of useful information regarding electrics here.
https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/
Dave


Excellent, thank you! I like the idea of the isolation but will take it one step at a time for now. Encouraged that I'm on the right tracks (wahey, a pun!), and in true beginner style I'm going to be soldering for the first time ever as well. Thanks for the link, will have a good look at that also.

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Re: A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:24 am

No one has mentioned insulated rail joiners. You need to put them on the V rails of each point. Your wiring will then be ok for both DC, with just one loco, and DCC. If you don't fit them your points will short out the feeds coming through the V rails.
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RedRockValley
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Re: A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby RedRockValley » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:07 pm

Bufferstop wrote:No one has mentioned insulated rail joiners. You need to put them on the V rails of each point. Your wiring will then be ok for both DC, with just one loco, and DCC. If you don't fit them your points will short out the feeds coming through the V rails.


Hi

Thank you for this, excuse my ignorance but what are insulated rail joiners and whereabouts on the points is the V rails?

By the way I’m also keeping the points as manual changing to avoid complicating my life further!

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Re: A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:19 pm

Insulated rail joiners are plastic versions of the ones that are normally used for joining track. They contain at their centre a plastic web which prevents the two rails coming into contact. The V rails are the two which form a V between the left hand rail of one track and the right hand rail of the other at the centre of the point. With set track and insulfrog points, with metal rail joiners you may get short circuits as wheels pass over the point of the V. With electrofrog (live frog) points you will get a short circuit on the unselected branch of the points. You have chosen the right place to put your power feeds. It's exactly as recommended for DC. Normally it's recommended to connect every section of the track to the power. With DCC the possibility exists of drawing power for more than one loco through the rail joiners which they were never designed to deliver.
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Re: A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby Ironduke » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:03 pm

RedRockValley wrote:
Bufferstop wrote:No one has mentioned insulated rail joiners. You need to put them on the V rails of each point. Your wiring will then be ok for both DC, with just one loco, and DCC. If you don't fit them your points will short out the feeds coming through the V rails.


Hi

Thank you for this, excuse my ignorance but what are insulated rail joiners and whereabouts on the points is the V rails?

By the way I’m also keeping the points as manual changing to avoid complicating my life further!


I take it the track is already laid? If the points are not live frog points I wouldn't worry about trying to insert insulated joiners unless you find you are getting shorts at the frog. I've never had issues using set track points that way.
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Re: A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby Flashbang » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:55 pm

Hi

You do not need IRJs (Insulated Rail Joiners) with Hornby points. All their track along with Peco Setrack is self isolating.

In your drawing you only need a track feed in the siding on the inside end of the turnout point near C for the headshunt/spur siding. The other two - one near A and the other on straight that leads into the siding from the main line are not really necessary.
Point 1 allows power to flow towards C when its set towards the siding. Point 2 allows power to flow into the headshunt/spur siding when its set set towards A.
I have shown the two sets of feeds removed,
FIRST_ACTUAL_TRACK.jpg
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kebang
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Re: A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby kebang » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:26 am

Assuming you want to keep the size of the layout as is, can I suggest these very minor changes to extend the lengths of the sidings. (May make shunting easier for an 8 year old!)
first loop.png
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kebang
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Re: A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby kebang » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:48 am

Oops! didn't realise you are using 1st.deg curves - Slight revision
first loop.png
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RedRockValley
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Re: A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby RedRockValley » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:27 am

Flashbang wrote:Hi

You do not need IRJs (Insulated Rail Joiners) with Hornby points. All their track along with Peco Setrack is self isolating.

In your drawing you only need a track feed in the siding on the inside end of the turnout point near C for the headshunt/spur siding. The other two - one near A and the other on straight that leads into the siding from the main line are not really necessary.
Point 1 allows power to flow towards C when its set towards the siding. Point 2 allows power to flow into the headshunt/spur siding when its set set towards A.
I have shown the two sets of feeds removed,
FIRST_ACTUAL_TRACK.jpg


Fantastic, thank you.

As a general answer to queries throughout my thread, the track is indeed already laid, including 'rusty' track painting and ballast - I'll upload a pic when I get a chance. We also have a tunnel taking up one of the curves so I won't actually be feeding any connections on that part, but take on board your alterations and will let you know how I get on!

Also - my track diagram was from RailModeller Pro software and the track pieces being used are not necessarily the exact parts on that drawing, as much of the parts came from the Bachmann 'Midnight Metropolitan' Train Set that we bought as a starting point for this little journey into the art of model railways that we've embarked upon!

RedRockValley
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Re: A basic track - a beginner needs hellp, wiring

Postby RedRockValley » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:30 am

kebang wrote:Oops! didn't realise you are using 1st.deg curves - Slight revision
first loop.png


thanks for this, but as you may have seen on other replies, the track is fully laid, fixed, ballasted, the oval seems a lot smaller than what you've done here and we've not quite got the space, otherwise I'd have definitely been looking to have added more track!


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