8x4 roundy round- Lemmington - minor update page 14

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
b308
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby b308 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:39 am

If you are controlling the layout from the front just leave them hand operated, there's no point(!) over complicating things on a first layout when it''s not really necessary!

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joshv8
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby joshv8 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:22 am

b308 wrote:If you are controlling the layout from the front just leave them hand operated, there's no point(!) over complicating things on a first layout when it''s not really necessary!


Thats sound advice also. I want to continue with the layout as a whole. I dont want to rush things, and the journey creating it is such an enjoyable part. But I also have the realism of 5 year olds having lets say, not copious amounts of patience and dont want to let it drag on either. My plan is to make provisions in the board for point mechanisms and carry on making them as a personal side project. I can add them at a later stage if need be and Im excited by the challenge of building them . Also setting up a box of levers more like a real railway sounds awfuly enticing.

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Chops
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby Chops » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:16 am

Bridges are fascinating structures; as old as civilization itself. Your ability to easily incorporate this massive structure is enviable. I've tried the same effect twice, and it was not nearly as visually effective as what you are accomplishing here. Some of my happiest memories were spent on British water ways, and I greatly look forward when this layout gets "watered down." As a "roundy-round" it is visually astonishing, if I may say. This enormous viaduct is a striking focal point. A layout among layouts, I must say.
I don't care what they say. I believe in Nessie.

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joshv8
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby joshv8 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:38 pm

Chops wrote:Bridges are fascinating structures; as old as civilization itself. Your ability to easily incorporate this massive structure is enviable. I've tried the same effect twice, and it was not nearly as visually effective as what you are accomplishing here. Some of my happiest memories were spent on British water ways, and I greatly look forward when this layout gets "watered down." As a "roundy-round" it is visually astonishing, if I may say. This enormous viaduct is a striking focal point. A layout among layouts, I must say.


Thanks mate, I appreciate your kind words. I have a bit of a soft spot for viaducts I must admit. As for enviable, a railway room would be just that! Id love the opportunity to fit everything in. Ive tried to take a less is more approach while still fitting in some level of features. I find too much track work tends to make everything look like a glorified train set.... not that theres a problem with that! Im quite fond of smallish layouts that can incorporate major aspects of railways... station, goods yard, engine yard etc etc. They have lots of operational interest. Me personally Im just happy watching trains run in the countryside.
Model railways have fascinated me my entire life and Ive spent countless hours studying and learning, and Ive seen a few great examples now of roundy rounds that with a less is more approach and clever scenic work really take that train set look away and give you something a bit more special. Heres hoping I achieve that!

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Chops
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby Chops » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:43 pm

Myself, I rather fancy small layouts as the ingenuity required to make something amazing. Also, better suited to my skill set, to be sure. I have had to learn the hard way, that even with the relative reliability of OO, the more stuff one packs in, the more stuff can go wrong. It also requires a firm grip on the "throttle" to keep a good focus. My other, American, HO 4 x 8, is a bit of alphabet soup by comparison to the British OO layout, because "stuff" is relative cheap and relatively abundant. Large layouts are amazing, and several shining examples here, but keeping it relatively simple has, in the end, been my salvation.
I don't care what they say. I believe in Nessie.

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joshv8
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby joshv8 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:57 pm

Chops wrote:Myself, I rather fancy small layouts as the ingenuity required to make something amazing. Also, better suited to my skill set, to be sure. I have had to learn the hard way, that even with the relative reliability of OO, the more stuff one packs in, the more stuff can go wrong. It also requires a firm grip on the "throttle" to keep a good focus. My other, American, HO 4 x 8, is a bit of alphabet soup by comparison to the British OO layout, because "stuff" is relative cheap and relatively abundant. Large layouts are amazing, and several shining examples here, but keeping it relatively simple has, in the end, been my salvation.


I find a vast majority of American layouts to be an 'alphabet soup' as you put it. I quite enjoy seeing them and funnily enough the first train set me dad ever bought me was a bachmann super chief... even though he modelled hornby/triang himself.

Im often amazed how different the styles of american layouts are to the british. Generally british seems to have either and end to end or shunting style layout or generally a minimum twin track roundy round.
Im quite often surprised how many American layouts are a single track with a run around or just a lot of spurs. I dont have enough knowledge with operation of american railways but Im guessing that was more prototypical for american railroad operation? Im very fond of the post civil war railroading and have a bachmann spectrum 4-4-0 american at home in f scale... Narrow gauge to run on g scale track. Its truly a beautiful locomotive I hope in a few years to get to play more in large scale.

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Mountain
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby Mountain » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:06 pm

A noticeable difference is that American layouts often use 90° crossings, yet in Britain just trying to buy one isn't easy. Most who need one need to make them themselves to get the right code of track. It is strange to be honest as when I look back in my local history of my area we have a great many of the things in various locations just within a couple of miles, and most still survived until diesels took over and also many smaller companies severed their rail connections. Just because they are rare today doesn't mean that they used to be rare before. It is really odd that the 90° crossing isn't sold in both code 100 and code 75 form in 00 gauge and also in code 80 and code 55 in N gauge for UK steam age modellers to use, let alone the odd place where diesel layouts may need them.

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joshv8
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby joshv8 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:24 pm

Had the young feller over the moon tonight watching James run around the layout for first time. No derailments, no running issues... a solid outcome. I have been working quite a few hours on the layout but most isnt photo worthy haha. Tracks pretty much secured in place.. wirings loosely run with twisted connections.. i will solder everything now it works.

Creating buildings is next project starting with the station. I was hoping for some input on how the platforms should be shaped..... straight or come to a taper by the points at the far end??
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Mountain
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby Mountain » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:05 pm

They should have ramps at either end (Only stations built before a specific date (Somewhere in the mid 1800's) didn't have ramps and that was very early in the days of railway history when they were built). Now in regards to if the ends of the ramps should be straight or curved. This depends on your track plan. If the track curves then the ends will follow that curve. Hope that makes sense.
Hornby and other manufacturers made platform ends with curves on both sides as then they could be used for all situations. It was easier then making several different ends for all scenarios.
Something else often overlooked. In some areas of Britain platform heights can be half height for some little used branch line stations and even at ground level for some halts. While today I dont believe any ground level halts remain, but many half height branch line stations can be found. They were usually made like that to reduce costs in the effort to build them if they knew they would only serve a remote population so wouldn't have much traffic. A few stations were later half extended so their main platform area would have a full height platform only to dip to half height where the lesser used areas further back or forward would be found.
Station platforms are an interesting subject and could be found made from many different materials from wood to concrete to earth with a retaining wall at the platform face. One platform with an interesting history is the down platform at Carmarthen. (The one on the opposite side to the main station building). At one time they wanted to put a third avoiding line inbetween the two running lines (The station used to be a through station) and in a single day they jacked up the platform and moved it across to provide the room. This platform was a traditional stone faced platform so it must have been quite some job to do, especially to do it all in a single day!

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joshv8
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby joshv8 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:16 pm

Mountain wrote:They should have ramps at either end (Only stations built before a specific date (Somewhere in the mid 1800's) didn't have ramps and that was very early in the days of railway history when they were built). Now in regards to if the ends of the ramps should be straight or curved. This depends on your track plan. If the track curves then the ends will follow that curve. Hope that makes sense.
Hornby and other manufacturers made platform ends with curves on both sides as then they could be used for all situations. It was easier then making several different ends for all scenarios.
Something else often overlooked. In some areas of Britain platform heights can be half height for some little used branch line stations and even at ground level for some halts. While today I dont believe any ground level halts remain, but many half height branch line stations can be found. They were usually made like that to reduce costs in the effort to build them if they knew they would only serve a remote population so wouldn't have much traffic. A few stations were later half extended so their main platform area would have a full height platform only to dip to half height where the lesser used areas further back or forward would be found.
Station platforms are an interesting subject and could be found made from many different materials from wood to concrete to earth with a retaining wall at the platform face. One platform with an interesting history is the down platform at Carmarthen. (The one on the opposite side to the main station building). At one time they wanted to put a third avoiding line inbetween the two running lines (The station used to be a through station) and in a single day they jacked up the platform and moved it across to provide the room. This platform was a traditional stone faced platform so it must have been quite some job to do, especially to do it all in a single day!


Thats great helps thanks.
I imagine Ill keep the platforms at full height as Im not basing the area on anywhere inparticular.
I also dont want to stretch it so far it rounds the end curve, I fear it will look unrealistic. Doing a basic measurement gives me about 1000mm for the station length so that will allow a larger engine with 2, 3 at a squeeze, passenger coaches. The ramps will eat into this somewhat however.

Yes it must have been a feat moving a stone platform in a day! Im surprised it held together...

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Mountain
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby Mountain » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:54 pm

I dont have a clue how they managed it. I have seen a photo of the work somewhere. I remember reading that it was jacked up. How they would do that to a traditional stone built platform I dont know, except I do remember with the photo that they had already built a new wall for the new platform which may have supported a rebuild of the outer wall?
Another interesting thing in the same area was that in between Carmarthen and Whitland is a marsh and they floated the railway on the marsh where thousands of rabbit skins were sewn together. The adjoining county used to have a big trade in selling wild rabbits to London for meat. Just one branchline took a ton and a half of rabbits a day to London. Mixer then put a halt to this trade.

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joshv8
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby joshv8 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:56 am

Mountain wrote:I dont have a clue how they managed it. I have seen a photo of the work somewhere. I remember reading that it was jacked up. How they would do that to a traditional stone built platform I dont know, except I do remember with the photo that they had already built a new wall for the new platform which may have supported a rebuild of the outer wall?
Another interesting thing in the same area was that in between Carmarthen and Whitland is a marsh and they floated the railway on the marsh where thousands of rabbit skins were sewn together. The adjoining county used to have a big trade in selling wild rabbits to London for meat. Just one branchline took a ton and a half of rabbits a day to London. Mixer then put a halt to this trade.


I used to hunt hares for pest eradication... eating crops... but a ton and a half of rabbits a day! That seems amazing just once haha. How many rabbits have you guys got there?

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Mountain
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:19 pm

Today not a lot as mixermatosis was introduced to control the numbers. My parents once saw a whole bank in a field collapse where rabbits undermined the land. The annoying thing is we have a country park nearby and the staff have been known to bring diseased rabbits with mixer in from elsewhere so they dont have issues. (Highly illegal as the desease is a horrid one).
I'm not actually sure if I heard the branch line would often exceed this amount of rabbits and get two and a half tonnes a day at peak times which would fill a 4 wheel railway goods van. The branch was the Whitland and Cardigan line, though other lines also had their rabbit meat to send.
The W&C had some amusing tales where passenger trains meeting the trains from London would proceed up the branch and the driver would stop in an isolated location near a river and delay the train an hour or two while he went fishing. He would face the sack only to be repeatedly employed again when they couldn't find any staff to replace him. (Back in those days in South and West Wales there was such a shortage of workers one could walk out one job and take a choice of another. Most of the South Wales population in the coastal areas were ones who came in from England and Ireland during the industrial revolution (Especially due to the potato famines in Ireland) to work here as there we was such an explosion of expansion that anyone anywhere who was available was desperately needed.(Though this was a little earlier then the W&C drivers tale, a similar situation remained until the 1970's when great changes took place and now. Should a full time unskilled post turn up in my area there can be up to 7000 applicants for each position. There's were around 3000 applicants per position when I had a job on the railway and they had to employ extra temporary staff up in Cardiff to sort through the applications!)

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joshv8
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby joshv8 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:25 pm

Mountain, I guess those stories are a perfect example of the term 'breeding like rabbits' . And I imagine once disease was introduced it was the end of an income for many people.

Thats quite an intersting story about the engine driver going fishing... quite a bit of inspiration there for modelling a scene haha.

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joshv8
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Re: 8x4 roundy round

Postby joshv8 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:29 am

Took a bit of cursing trying to get long stock to clear the platform coming around the loop line but I have platforms! Giving an overview of the layout the stations in place, the rear right corner the majority of the foams taking shape. The cut out for the rivers in place and the unweathered support under the viaduct, and the girder bridge is taking shape as well. I decided to keep with my original track plan and not add any extra facing points. While yes it would allow for more interest, clearance with the platforms was an issue and as said, its more genuine without them.
The peco tunnel mouths are sitting basically in place.
As I never had a drawn out plan (it was in my noggin) the scenic overview is as follows....

Tunneled section at the close end, flowing down into the valley area. This is to visuually break the rounded track. It must flow in though, I dont want it to look 'stuck on'.

Over the hill/ tunnel a road will come down and work along the valley edge all the way up to where the water tower is sitting. There will be a crossing here allowing access to the goods area also.

The harder to fit in part... Between the station and the road I want a row of maybe 4-5 terraced shops. The idea being the station and the shops are there to service local homes and farms.

This is the basic outline. Hopefully adding in some more life and features as it progresses and space allows. My next plans are to work on the terraced shops, once I know where theyre going, I can plan the remainder of the scenery around it. I hope everyone enjoys the progress and any thoughts on continuing scenery and what to add would be great. Im looking foward to getting some of my engines running around.
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