Triang Blue Pullman motor problem

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
drt7uk
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Triang Blue Pullman motor problem

Postby drt7uk » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:15 am

Hi folks, I've got a Triang Blue Pullman, and I'd like to ask if you have any tips for how to get the motor bogie to run more smoothly.

I've replaced the original grooved wheels with smooth ones, and it does run reasonable well - but jerks about a lot, it's not smooth at all. Any tips? I've seen a youtube video showing how to take apart and put back together again, but wanted to know if anyone else had a similar issue, and whether it's just something old Triang motors are like (and therefore I just need to live with it).

Also wondered if people had replaced the Triang motor in the Pullman with a newer motor, and if so, which make/type they recommended?

Someone kindly suggested replacing the magnet with a rare earth one, if you've done this, please let me know what one I should get for this motor.

Thanks a lot.

GWR_fan
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Re: Triang Blue Pullman motor problem

Postby GWR_fan » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:04 am

I have had a reasonable amount of experience with these motors. In my experience the motor is either a runner or a dog and no amount of coaxing will turn a dog into a sweet runner. I have replaced armatures, magnets, brushes, gears, etc. and came to the conclusion that if it runs well enough to start with then it is worth fixing up. If a poor runner then save your money.

I have around a dozen of these motors and about five run as well as a current drive, while the others are a varied mix of performance from smooth but noisy to barely running at all. There are too many variables with these rather simple motors and wear will be your biggest enemy. Simply having the brushes slightly higher or lower can mean the difference between a slow revving motor and a high revving motor.

Obviously a poor magnet will cause erratic running, however, a strong neodymium magnet will not compensate. I find them too strong causing the armature to bend and giving notchy performance. Peters Spares had new replacement armatures for the Blue Pullman, a good start as many stock armatures may have winding degradation (a pole open circuit) due excessive heat.

If you decide to strip the motor down then the video on You-tube is a good start. Ensure that you reassemble the magnet exactly as removed or else you will change the polarity causing your loco to run the opposite direction to normal. I am not convinced that smooth tyred wheels are markedly quieter than the grooved type.

As regards motor noise, the body acts like a diaphragm, as in a speaker and amplifies the sound of the motor. Removing the body generally quietens down the motor, but then that is not really a satisfactory alternative.

I install power pickups on the power car trailing bogie to enhance power pickup and reliability.

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alex3410
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Re: Triang Blue Pullman motor problem

Postby alex3410 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:04 am

If that's the case could you fill the void in the body with something like packaging foam etc to stop it amplifying the noise from the motor?

Just a random thought :lol:

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Bufferstop
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Re: Triang Blue Pullman motor problem

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:39 am

As GWR_fan says the motor is either a "good un" or it's a dog, when it comes to noise the amount of play in the non existent axle bearings is a major factor. Whilst it is sitting on the track try separating the axles, gentle back and forward motion, then tip it upside down and see by how much you can lift the axles. This will give an Idea of the amount of play that is involved. Replacing the keeper plate just might make some difference to vertical movement but it's the wear in the bearing surfaces of the diecast block itself that will be the major problem. I have two of these bogies under a pair of dock shunters. The oldest has Ultrascale wheels fitted the other, a later Triang Hornby version has its original wheels pushed out a little to get through modern check rail gaps. There's little to choose between them, apart from the dirt magnets built into the Ultrascale wheels. Even after a thorough rail and wheel cleaning session it comes back from its first outing with mucky wheels.
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Bigmet
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Re: Triang Blue Pullman motor problem

Postby Bigmet » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:59 am

For the reasons mentioned up thread, a motor bogie that was run ragged by the original owner is a lost cause.

I'd move straight to investigating can motor driven etched brass kit replacement mechanisms. This is something I know nothing about in terms of choice of makers and designs, other than having seen one called a 'lo-rider' used very successfully by an acquaintance.

GWR_fan
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Re: Triang Blue Pullman motor problem

Postby GWR_fan » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:26 am

Hollywood Foundry in Melbourne, Australia did a conversion drive block but it is/was very expensive.


GWR_fan
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Re: Triang Blue Pullman motor problem

Postby GWR_fan » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:03 pm

I revisited my Blue Pullmans yesterday and decided that I could live without them, even though I have spent many hours getting them running reasonably well. I decided that while they run well in general, I cannot live with the noise. Some motors are whisper quiet and yet others seem to have a turbocharger wail (no need for a sound card).

All my Blue Pullmans will be going on evilbay to fund other purchases. Amazing how many locomotives one can accumulate while trying to get a good sounding model. Perhaps when I was a child the noise was part of the experience. However, after a lifetime of hearing jet engines howling I prefer the peace and quiet.

GWR_fan
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Re: Triang Blue Pullman motor problem

Postby GWR_fan » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:32 am

Over the Easter weekend I listed my three Blue Pullman sets (DMU's and four coaches each), however a few minutes later I had a change of heart and ended the two really good/mint sets. I decided given that I firstly would not get a sufficient monetary return and secondly not see two sets like this again that it would be foolhardy to let them go for a song. The third set which had some cosmetic issues, but still in good condition, was sold the next morning.

After hearing several You-Tube videos on the Triang Blue Pullman, I decided that my noisy drives were really not that noisy at all. Some of the videos the sound was intensely irritating. I now respect my whisper smooth versions a lot more.

drt7uk
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Re: Triang Blue Pullman motor problem

Postby drt7uk » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:43 pm

Belated thanks for all your help with this. Unfortunately, despite trying all these great tips have been unable to get it working. Even tried this helpful service video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jdUlv4o3YI

So I bit the bullet and bought another motor off ebay, that is listed as 'smooth and strong' runner...fingers crossed.

GWR_fan
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Re: Triang Blue Pullman motor problem

Postby GWR_fan » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:20 pm

I hope for the best, but usually sellers onsell troublesome motors. Like you, I persevered and eventually realised that if it runs like a dog then simple fixes like a stripdown and new brushes is not going to make it perfect again. Out of about a dozen motors I think that I have three that are excellent runners and another two that are acceptable but relatively noisy. The rest went to new homes with me advising the buyers that they had issues. If you find a good motor then never let it go as they are not that common. It is a relatively simple design but once a bit of wear sets in then troubles commence.

kevin sharpe
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Re: Triang Blue Pullman motor problem

Postby kevin sharpe » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:32 pm

Just found this and ask if any one has used a different motor unit ie one out of a class 25 or hst power unit iknow it will take a lot of work to get it to fit but it is a old favourite and would like to keep it going


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