EBay shenanigans

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
GWR_fan
Posts: 4750
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:57 pm
Location: Antipodes

EBay shenanigans

Postby GWR_fan » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:16 am

Last night a very strange behaviour on eBay. A seller, who seems to be a wharehouse clearing house (disposing of slow moving items), lists a particular Hornby 'Royal Mail' locomotive at a 'Buy it Now' of GBP 79.95. They have 'more than 10 items available on the listing. As well, they also list an auction listing with a start bid of GBP 59.95. With eight hours to go and no bids on the auction only listing item, I placed a bid of GBP 75.95 (GBP 4.00 less than a 'Buy it Now' price). With only seconds to go, two bidders sniped my bid and their bid prices were higher than the 'Buy it Now' price. One bid was GBP 0.05 over the buy it price and the high bidder was GBP 0.15 higher than the buy it price. Now all this time there were 16 identical items available at a 'Buy it Now' price of GBP 79.95. The bidders obviously knew of the 'Buy it Now' price as their bids were in the ballpark range.

I am not complaining of being sniped (I have sniped many, many bidders in the past), but the underbidder's only bid was higher than he could have purchased the item outright and the high, winning bidder's bid price was also higher than he could have simply purchased the item outright. Do we have a little 'shill' bidding going on here? The bidders were obviously aware of the seller's 'Buy it Now' listings and were not saving money by simply purchasing at the 'Buy it Now' price. I find it strange that two bidders would actually bid on an item at a price higher than the same seller was listing the same item at a lower 'Buy it Now' price.

Makes me wonder at the legitimacy of the other Hornby items the seller has listed. A check of his feedback shows that Hornby items are not his usual line. A similar 'clearance ' hobby eBay store out here (downunder), in recent weeks was listing multiple Hornby set packs at prices cheaper in dollars than available in Britain in English pounds. Two people received their items and two did not. Mysteriously, all Hornby items disaappeared off the stores listings. Now this seller had more than 10 items in each listing and his prices were nearly half the current 'discount' price in Australia. Very strange Hornby dealings, both sides of the globe. I am not a suspicious person, but with several thoussand eBay transactions under my belt on both sides of the fence, listings and behaviour like this ring the alarm bells.

Tim

senorsenales
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:37 am

Re: EBay shenanigans

Postby senorsenales » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:45 am

On that general subject I have never been able to work out that when an article starts at 0.99p and there are no bidders you can put in a bid of (say) a pound and it immediately comes up as being outbid and then shows an amount far in excess of the starting price. How do they do that ?

It's the same as 'reserve not met'. Why bother starting it at a low rate and then draw punters into making a bid only to be told your bid is below the undisclosed reserve.

User avatar
dubdee1000
Posts: 896
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:59 pm
Location: cwm brynbuga

Re: EBay shenanigans

Postby dubdee1000 » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:45 am

Hi Tim,

Seems to be shill bidding to me and whilst you may report it, don't get your hopes up that ebay will do much about it. Same thing happened to me. I wanted to buy a steriliser which because of its size was collection only. I happened to be passing through the area where it was for sale, so i offered the seller £350 for it and to close the auction early (it had no bids on its starting price of £200), assuming it worked ok. He wanted more and i declined, but i continued to watch the auction. There were no bids on it until 2 minutes before the auction was due to end. Then, two came in, the second taking it to £550, way over a sensible price. OK, so people often bid in the last few minutes, but it was suspicious. Three days later, the item gets relisted and the same thing happens again, even to the point of the same bids!

To me, what appeared to be happening was the seller was bidding at the last minute to prevent his steriliser selling for less than he thought it was worth. He could see that people were wathcing it and if one of these bid near the close of the auction, they'd get it 'cheap'. The rapid relisting of the item gave weight to this. I reported it to ebay as an example of shill bidding who came back that there was 'no evidence for this' pah!

GWR_fan
Posts: 4750
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:57 pm
Location: Antipodes

Re: EBay shenanigans

Postby GWR_fan » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:57 am

While eBay will never admit it, shill bidding is very common. I have often refused comments from friends that they would put a bid on an item of mine to boost the price and have continued to ignore their requests. A past friend told me it was common for his small group of friends to boost each other's eBay listings to increase the sale price. I will have nothing of it and detest the practice as dishonest to my genuine bidders.

Tim

User avatar
Shaun Wilson
Posts: 409
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:57 pm
Location: Banff , Aberdeenshire

Re: EBay shenanigans

Postby Shaun Wilson » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:13 pm

Dont understand why ebay wont do nothing about it as its bad business for them, as a buyer and a seller on there ive had some bad dealings in the past, when i sell items its always 99p starting price and it goes for what it sells for regardless. Maybe have to organise a mass boycot of ebay services and see how long it is before they do something then.

whufcfan
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:27 pm
Location: Towcester

Re: EBay shenanigans

Postby whufcfan » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:02 pm

A while back I listed one of the Hornby virtual railways CD roms (the first version) @ 99p start like all of my items, it sold for £19 which was unbelievable, there were numerous copies at the time for buy it now £7.50. I would have been happy with £4 to £5. I had two or three of these as Hornby were getting rid of them with their boxed sets.
I put it down to two bidders that did not want to be beaten, or they were drunk! :o
Steve

User avatar
amsie
Posts: 364
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:10 pm

Re: EBay shenanigans

Postby amsie » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:48 pm

I know of people who do that on certain items, but for me personally I can 100% say i've never done that. Im too busy to be honest and sometimes I sell things and make more than I thought, and sometimes I sell for far less that I expected.

I always start my auctions at 0.99 with no reserve, but looking at Ebay these days people are starting auctions on pieces of junk at silly start prices, for example hornby class 86 locos starting at £39.99.

User avatar
Shaun Wilson
Posts: 409
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:57 pm
Location: Banff , Aberdeenshire

Re: EBay shenanigans

Postby Shaun Wilson » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:09 pm

Ebay has become rip-off central, but if you have the time to filter out all the sh*t sellers then there is still genuine sellers on there like ourselves, which is what keeps me going back.

GWR_fan
Posts: 4750
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:57 pm
Location: Antipodes

Re: EBay shenanigans

Postby GWR_fan » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:15 pm

Suprisingly, I have purchased three Hornby 'Legends' locomotives from the same site over the last two nights and am most happy with the service and attention to detail the site propietors have shown. The Royal Mail locomotive was a fraction of the price most want for the item. It seems that I was a little too precautious in my original dealings.

Tim

User avatar
flying scotsman123
Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:29 pm
Location: err, down there round the corner... not that one!!!

Re: EBay shenanigans

Postby flying scotsman123 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:58 pm

Shaun Wilson wrote:Ebay has become rip-off central, but if you have the time to filter out all the sh*t sellers then there is still genuine sellers on there like ourselves, which is what keeps me going back.

agree with this, was looking at old tri-ang pullmans, some people starting bidding at 99p and some at £20-£30 per coach :shock: i don't understand. sellers can usually be split into two catagories. people who want to make money and just that, and people who genuinly want their items to go to a good home because they are not used. thankfully i only seem to have encounters with the latter group. i bought some wagons off some one and they wished me a happy birthday as it was for my birthday and seemed pleased they were going to some one who would use them. also at warley i bought a smashing coronation class tender moter engine for £20 quid. all he wanted for it was to go to a good home and didn't really mind what he got for it.
Image
Stone station in pre-grouping days, my layout.

kristopher1805
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: EBay shenanigans

Postby kristopher1805 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:25 pm

Well its back to Caveat Emptor. I have purchased quite a bit of stuff on Ebay but quickly found most current items that are new can be purchased cheaper on some bona fide website such as eHattons, never ceases to amaze that people might pay more.

I have bought mostly Wrenn wagons but have come across obvious shill bidders, the item is snatched away last second then reappears even to the same photograph, so obvious and try to complain to Ebay - its not easy, you would think that this would be a big item, e.g. Arrow - click here to report shill bidders.

In fact there has only ever been one prosecution for shill bidding so Ebay obviously cannot care less as it is such an obvious ploy. So you have to be savvy, yep the item that has no bidders and when I click on it suddenly there is a prior bid, dunno how that can happen suppose there is a sub routine there somewhere, again Ebay does not seem to care about such trivialities.

With Ebay you just grin and bear it, let it walk if it does go too high, I let a B16/3 kit made loco go because it went over my budget, two others pushed it up a bit, generally another will come along soon and if not so be it. In the end Ebay is a useful source of items and you can search the world so it has great value as a source, just do not expect everything.

norfolkcoastmodels
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 12:23 pm

Re: EBay shenanigans

Postby norfolkcoastmodels » Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:13 pm

It's a case of knowing what you can afford, your spending limit on an item and picking a good seller. People often forget that there may be 14 other people after that must have 99p loco and bidding can be fierce.

User avatar
hairyhandedfool
Posts: 1014
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:28 am

Re: EBay shenanigans

Postby hairyhandedfool » Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:10 pm

GWR_fan wrote:. With only seconds to go, two bidders sniped my bid and their bid prices were higher than the 'Buy it Now' price. One bid was GBP 0.05 over the buy it price and the high bidder was GBP 0.15 higher than the buy it price. Now all this time there were 16 identical items available at a 'Buy it Now' price of GBP 79.95. The bidders obviously knew of the 'Buy it Now' price as their bids were in the ballpark range....


Of course it could be shill bidding, but just as a random thought, I turn off 'Buy it now' when looking through that particular auction site because the chances of a 'buy it now' being a bargin price and not snapped up are quite rare. So if I were one of those other bidders I would not have known the price of the 'buy it now' option, it could then be co-incidence that my maximum bid is close to the value of the other items. However, the fact that two others bid that value is slightly odd.
"Dying is easy, its living that scares me to death"
Annie Lennox - Cold (from the album "Diva")

Stressed? Fight my brute
You can now join my Clan


Return to “Hornby - including Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests