Point motors

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poliss
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Re: Point motors

Postby poliss » Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:20 pm

Others say that the surface mounted point motors are notoriously difficult to fit accurately in position. Could take a lot of trail and error to get them fitted.

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hobby boy
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Re: Point motors

Postby hobby boy » Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:06 am

AndyCott wrote:Quick update, The surface mounted point motors work perfecf when not attatched to the track :? :?

There are faulty Surface Mounted motors around as i got a faulty one. It works on its own but isn't strong enough to power the point. The best thing to do is take it back to the shop and buy a peco surface mounted point motor - more reliable. Another thing you could do is make the point motors run off a seperate supply and use Passing Contact switches (hornby or peco) or return to centre toggle switches (on)off(on) Switches. If you decide to use them you need a CDU so it protects the point motors from burning out and give them a large push.

Andrew
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AndyCott
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Re: Point motors

Postby AndyCott » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:55 pm

Thank you everybody for your help, I have got them working today after spending 3 hours at it.

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RAF96
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Re: Point motors

Postby RAF96 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:08 pm

Hi
The Elite provides more spare power than a Select due to its 4 amp power supply, but the Hornby accessory decoder stores up the oomph to fire the motors by way of a built in CDU, which isn't really that brilliant and the reason I stuck with analogue method of point motor firing using a Gaugemaster CDU and an old HM2000 controller for power. DCC is used only for the trains.
Even so they will fire 2 paired motors as long as the mechanical bits are nice and free, especially with surface mounted motors and are given a recharge interval between firings.
Tip for using PECO surface mounted motors with Hornby points - crop off a bit of the brass tube Hornby supplies with their Mk2 motors (shed mounted version) to join the extension pin to the motor and slip this over the Hornby point tie-bar. The Peco motor operating arm will fit nicely over the tube. A drop of super glue can be used to secure the tube to either tie-bar or motor but not both.
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Silver Surfer
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Re: Point motors

Postby Silver Surfer » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:37 am

AndyCott wrote:Quick update, The surface mounted point motors work perfecf when not attatched to the track :? :?

Sounds like a friction problem Andy, so check the alignment. In my experience solenoid motors needed to be perfectly level and at a perfect right angle to the throw of the tie bar, the point itself had to be similarly flat and level, otherwise something would bind somewhere causing the solenoid not to throw.

The iron core in a solenoid is thrown along the channel when a momentary pulse of power is applied to it so it has to be free and easy to operate, but it won't push or pull anything with any weight or load and is usually just sufficient to flick over the centre spring which then locks the point in place. Because it doesn't have constant power, any additional load such as friction will prevent this from happening, whereas applying constant power burns out the motor so you end up with a lose/lose situation - that's why I use Cobalts.

Mike
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AndyCott
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Re: Point motors

Postby AndyCott » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:23 pm

I got them working by lubing them with a bit of WD-40 on squirted into the motor and on the point *hinge* and tie bar, Also been in my local model shop today and spoke to Andy the assistant who's always been a helpful source of advice and was told they had problems getting the surface mounted motors on their shop layout to work until the were loosened up with some WD-40 :|

Thanks to everyone who replied on this thread with help and advice.

Thanks again,

Andy
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poliss
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Re: Point motors

Postby poliss » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:09 pm

WD-40 should never be used on anything model railways. It dries up quickly and leaves a yukky residue. Use lubricants especially designed for model railway use.

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Re: Point motors

Postby AndyCott » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:15 pm

poliss wrote:WD-40 should never be used on anything model railways. It dries up quickly and leaves a yukky residue. Use lubricants especially designed for model railway use.


Oops, I'll clean up then and get some model railway lubricant then :oops:
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Re: Point motors

Postby Peterm » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:50 pm

AndyCott wrote:
poliss wrote:WD-40 should never be used on anything model railways. It dries up quickly and leaves a yukky residue. Use lubricants especially designed for model railway use.


Oops, I'll clean up then and get some model railway lubricant then :oops:

And then go back and strangle the other Andy. :wink:
Pete.

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Silver Surfer
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Re: Point motors

Postby Silver Surfer » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:15 am

Silver Surfer wrote:Preferably not your local Retailer who more than likely will be intent on selling product and not necessarily giving you best advice.

Remember me suggesting this?

This is an example of very poor advice, not best - he wants locking up, firstly for ever suggesting WD40; secondly, for selling you kit that even they had difficulty with and they're supposed to be experts in the field.

Mind you if it was the dealership I'm thinking of then it comes as no surprise as I had some really dodgy advice from them when I went DCC - they told me their 'top-end' controller the Elite coupled with Hornby decoders was just about the best set-up you could buy. This might have been true of Hornby products but, there was never any suggestion of me doing any research nor the fact there were other manufacturers of DCC kit out there.... so double check anything they tell you and always compare prices before giving them your cash.

Mike

Ps. I think the fact WD40 loosened up the situation proves the 'friction' theory.
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Roger (RJ)
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Re: Point motors

Postby Roger (RJ) » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:29 am

Silver Surfer wrote:
Silver Surfer wrote:Preferably not your local Retailer who more than likely will be intent on selling product and not necessarily giving you best advice.

Mind you if it was the dealership I'm thinking of then it comes as no surprise as I had some really dodgy advice from them when I went DCC.

If it's the shop I'm thinking of (their name begins with a "G" and a "D"), I agree, there advice is based purely on how much they can make out of you. It's not what the staff like doing, it's management policy.

Edited for spelling
Last edited by Roger (RJ) on Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AndyCott
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Re: Point motors

Postby AndyCott » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:39 am

They have always seemed OK with me when I have been in the shop. But will proceed with caution now.
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Silver Surfer
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Re: Point motors

Postby Silver Surfer » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:27 pm

AndyCott wrote:They have always seemed OK with me when I have been in the shop.

Nice guys but look what rubbish you've finished up with as a result of their OK'ness. I bet you also paid top dollar for what you got as well !!!!

Take a tip from me (it's free and a result of about 50 years in railway modelling - yes I know, that statement just makes me old but, hopefully, wiser :D )
Tip: Stay away from this manufacturer's electronic and electrical gear - and I don't care what Andy or his cronies tell you as they're paid to inform you that the products they sell are the beez neez - but they're really not fit for purpose. The makers have now had three goes at DCC type systems/controllers, Zero1, Select and Elite, still can't get it right and all three of them are absolute dross compared to the serious contenders out there.

Unfortunately for you, me and everyone else, they have a name that was once a proud symbol in the model/modelling field, but they've had so much bad press over a ten or fifteen year period during which time they consistently got it wrong, that newcomers to the hobby are still drawn to the name and suffer as a result.

If you heed my advice (your choice entirely) you'll begin to enjoy the hobby much more and won't spend anywhere near as much time buggering about trying to get it all to work properly and also, be able to sit back and chuckle when you remember the bad old times when you used their kit and a Newbie comes on bemoaning their products.

For what it's worth, I know another dealer in the City who supposedly sells this make of equipment but, he's had so many complaints about their electronics kit, he simply refuses to stock it anymore and refers anyone with a complaint etc back to the manufacturer.

Roger(RJ)
I didn't want to name names, but now you mention it.....

Mike
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Re: Point motors

Postby RAF96 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:59 pm

Harping back to Hornby surface mounted point motors. If they are not perefctly aligned with the track mechanism the turnout tie bar pin can catch on the motor housing. Give the tie bar pin a bit of a file and it will stop it catching.
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Re: Point motors

Postby locoworks » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:10 pm

Silver Surfer wrote:
AndyCott wrote:They have always seemed OK with me when I have been in the shop.

Nice guys but look what rubbish you've finished up with as a result of their OK'ness. I bet you also paid top dollar for what you got as well !!!!

Take a tip from me (it's free and a result of about 50 years in railway modelling - yes I know, that statement just makes me old but, hopefully, wiser :D )
Tip: Stay away from this manufacturer's electronic and electrical gear - and I don't care what Andy or his cronies tell you as they're paid to inform you that the products they sell are the beez neez - but they're really not fit for purpose. The makers have now had three goes at DCC type systems/controllers, Zero1, Select and Elite, still can't get it right and all three of them are absolute dross compared to the serious contenders out there.

Unfortunately for you, me and everyone else, they have a name that was once a proud symbol in the model/modelling field, but they've had so much bad press over a ten or fifteen year period during which time they consistently got it wrong, that newcomers to the hobby are still drawn to the name and suffer as a result.

If you heed my advice (your choice entirely) you'll begin to enjoy the hobby much more and won't spend anywhere near as much time buggering about trying to get it all to work properly and also, be able to sit back and chuckle when you remember the bad old times when you used their kit and a Newbie comes on bemoaning their products.

For what it's worth, I know another dealer in the City who supposedly sells this make of equipment but, he's had so many complaints about their electronics kit, he simply refuses to stock it anymore and refers anyone with a complaint etc back to the manufacturer.

Roger(RJ)
I didn't want to name names, but now you mention it.....

Mike


all good advice from an elderly sage :mrgreen: , the other thing that helps keep their reputation up on DCC stuff is that NONE of the monthly mags seem point out the 'problems' associated with their products. it is like many of the reviews are based on the manufacturers printings and no actual product usage.


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