DCC layout and PC control.

[centenary]

I've seen a few posts that refer to controlling the layout via a PC, especially if you want to run a large number of trains at the same time (bit of an oxymoron there isnt it because the pC will be running the layout not 'you'? Just a thought!)

Im assuming, dangerous I know, that DCC makes this all possible and that PC control on DC maybe isnt possible or more difficult. Anyway, my original intention is for wifey's layout to be DCC and run via (probably) the NCE Powercab. However, the possibility of PC control is intriguing. Again, I guess the PC tells which train to stop \ go, what speed to travel at etc. setting of points and signals via the DCC and some form of PC program?

How easy is all this to set up? Does it take an age to program train decoders and the PC? How 'user friendly' are these programs to control the layout and perhaps more importantly, how much do these programs cost?

Any info available?

(Sorry if this is the wrong forum!)

Thanks.

[upnick]

Hi
Take a look at JMRI its a free downloadable programme & is updated regularly http://jmri.sourceforge.net/ & is free ....... setting up decoders is a quick task taking only minutes for initial addressing & set up .......... if you are using the NCE powercab you need an interface for it & lead to use with the PC http://www.bromsgrovemodels.co.uk/pd121 ... egoryId=87 best thing is chat to John at Bromsgrove models for more help with it

[m8internet]

Although the computer is controlling the trains in DCC, the operator is still primarily in charge

It is still possible to control a DC layout from a computer, but this is more of a school project than useful for a layout!

Computer control on a DCC layout is simply an extension of the existing DCC setup
Each motor requires the fitting of a decoder, the decoders typically cost between £10 and £40 (double that if you want sound, but not really practical in N gauge)
Conversion in OO gauge is really easy, N gauge isn't so easy; typical costs using an agent are between £20 and £40 (per motor)

It is ESSENTIAL to get the right DCC control system
Take a look at the different suppliers and ensure the system supports NMRA (although this is a USA organisation it ensures all the equipment is standard)

The system will also include a bus, varies by name between manufacture such as X-Bus by Lenz
This then allows control from a computer

Overall this is expensive, but makes it ideal for large layouts with large numbers of motors, so that electrical isolation on sections is no longer required
Equally, trains can be operated towards each other in close proximity
Finally, and this is the benefit I like, the motors are powered at all times, so the lights can be on at all times

[centenary]

Many thanks both for the replies.

However this brings another couple of questions. I guess in using PC control, the DCC cab becomes obsolete? What sort of GUI (Graphical User Interface) is provided by these train controlling software? Do you have to load a representation of your layout to the program else how would it know the location and what points to switch?

[m8internet]

You can retain the handheld controllers, but in effect they become redundant

The interface on the computer has three main "windows"
The first is your track layout, and this takes time and patience to complete
The second is the controller
The third is the fleet controller
Normally you toggle between the controller and fleet controller, in much the same way as using a mouse pointer to highlight icons

You can go one stage further if your layout also includes block control sections,the decoders in the motors include transponders, and the points are connected through accessory decoders
You can then assign each train, exactly as you would in real life, with a loco, coaching stock, and headcode
Once assigned you then program a route, again all done with a mouse pointer

This is the ultimate setup, costs a fortune but you truly control the trains and not the track!

[m.levin]

The system will also include a bus, varies by name between manufacture such as X-Bus by Lenz
This then allows control from a computer

One thing to add to that is not all systems do an off the shelf interface.
One thing that is heard a lot is "I can connect my Hornby Elite to the PC can it control the layout?" I have heard it can but it wont be an easy job, if you aren't very computer literate then don't bother with the elite.
Look in to the systems and the PC control, the best and cheapest I have seen and know works, as it was what I started with, is the Digitrax Zephyr and USB Locobuffer II which is about £150 for both, I beleive that Bachmann have the Pro box which can connect to the PC but at what level and what interface is needed I don't know.
As said before it does get expensive the deeper you go, I have spent more on the PC controlled side of my layout then the layout itself. I have automated Signals, automated running and detection transponding. I am looking at about 4 figures for price.

[m8internet]

One thing to add to that is not all systems do an off the shelf interface.
One thing that is heard a lot is "I can connect my Hornby Elite to the PC can it control the layout?" I have heard it can but it wont be an easy job, if you aren't very computer literate then don't bother with the elite

From the OP, looks like a more "advanced" system is being considered

[EddScott]

I have avoided PC control due to expense and complexity. My layout is quite big and I have 4 main lines with 2 stations either end. One long side is fiddle and through line.

What I am planning to use are heathcote detectors and timers and bridge rectifiers for both station halts. I can then use the "brake on DC" method to have the trains slow to a stop in the stations. In the fiddle area the trains can just stop. As one train enters the block, it slows/stops and triggers the restoration of DCC to the train further along which keeps moving until it enters the next block.

On the control panel will be a switch to toggle the automatic system on/off.

I've experimented with this and it doesn't seem to do any damage to the locos and the lights stay on.

[locoworks]

it depends at what level you want PC control, if you are looking for a fully automated layout with point switching and block detection so the PC 'knows' where the trains are, then yes it is complicated and expensive ( google Mc Kinley railway , or something like ) but you can also just use the PC to control everything yourself with NO automation, so the PC replaces the handheld cab units and any mimic panels for point control. or you can use the PC WITH the handheld cabs and just treat the PC as a glorified cab that does all the points too, or not even that, just a glorified cab. the beauty of the PC is that ( i would assume ) it can replace many handheld cabs with onscreen ones all in one place. so you could set two trains chasing their tails and keep direct control over them without having to switch addresses on a cab, and then use a handheld cab or even another onscreen cab to move something else. PC does not necessarilly mean fully automated.

[Hiddle]

If you log in to RR&Co http://www.freiwald.com you can download their software (go for Silver) and you are allowed to play with it for about 15 mins. You can log in and out as many times as you like, so apart from the bu**eration factor of rebooting the sofware you can get a pretty good idea of what can be done with a proprietary but fairly expensive programme.

For a basic understanding you do need to download the instruction manual as a PDF, and reading this will give a good overview of what the system can do - it is only about 300 pages long! Fortunately, the first few chapters are all you need to get to grips with

As mentioned JMRI is free, but I don't think it is as user friendly as RR&Co.

[EddScott]

I'm thinking of using a PC to control some automation on my layout. Its a toss up between PC control or Bitswitch control

My layout has 4 mainlines and I would like to automate the outer 2 lines. There are 2 stations and one off scene area where the trains would stop. I would like to run 3 trains all in the same direction on each line. Although there are lots of points, the only points I would want under computer control is in the main station. It is 4 lines with 2 being through lines and I would like to be able to determine which train goes into which line - i.e. a passenger train would use the line next to the platform and stop and a freight train would use the through line and stop.

I would also want the ability for manual control of these lines.

I use an NCE Powercab and Masterswitch point controllers.