Final design now need advice

[Jules59]

Hi guys i need advice on the attached layout with the electrics. The locos are all DC only.
I have available electrofrog and insulfrog pointwork available and will be looking to put point motors and any microswitches as required .

I have 2 hornby duette controllers and envision an outer loop, inner loop and branch line loop and fiddle yard as shown . The outer loop needs to be continuous into the fiddle yard and inner loop if required and the inner loop in turn needs to access both too .

Im not very experienced with wiring electrofrog points but understand smaller locos will pick up better on them but all I've read on them people cut wires and start soldering additional wires under them which is something im not confident enough to do. So im looking to use insulated joiner's and wired joiners and micro switches as connectors where possible.

Any comments or outline thoughts would be greatly appreciated .

Jules

[Mountain]

I was looking at your plan. (If I knew how to draw on your plan I would!). Your layout design is such that you really need to wire at least the inner loop using the cab control method because it will be easier to wire it into zones. This will also give the advantage of stopping one train on one zone section and allowing another train to pass on the same loop of track in a second zone on the loop, if that makes sense?
Flashbang has a site which explains all this in detail. He also has written a book about model railways which includes details about wiring called "The Newcomers Guide To Model Railways".

I also like the PSL book of Model Railway Wiring which I find to be a nice clear easy to read book. Either way, it is worth a study of either to get to learn the basics of how cab control wiring works.
Cab control can also be wired using the "Common return" wiring method to save wire IF ones train controllers are suitable for it.

Why I say that it is worth learning the basic principles is that once learned, one can use these principles on any layout design for a DC set up.

[Bigmet]

If you can, don't use the turntable 'roundhouse style' with a fan of storage roads of it. Tuck the turntable away as compactly as possible and use for turning only, use pointwork to make the loco sidings.

'Im not very experienced with wiring electrofrog points but understand smaller locos will pick up better on them but all I've read on them people cut wires and start soldering additional wires under them which is something im not confident enough to do. So im looking to use insulated joiner's and wired joiners and micro switches as connectors where possible...

Is it soldering that is the obstacle? If so practice with scrap wire and rail until proficient. I would go as far as saying it's a key skill if you have any ambition in railway modelling: and it is like riding a bike, initially 'impossible', then when the skill is mastered 'so easy'.

[abenn]

I would persevere with Electrofrog if I were you. Whether you're running DC or DCC there's much less chance of 'dead' spots.

The need to "cut wires and solder additional wires" is so that the frog and its two immediate bits of rail is isolated from all other parts of the points, and can then be connected via a microswitch to whichever side of the power feed is appropriate for the direction the points are set. You'll need insulated rail joiners on the two rails that are connected directly to the frog, but wired joiners can't eliminate the need to solder the frog's feed wire, and the + and - wires of the main power feed, to the microswitch to effect the polarity switching at the frog.

As Bigmet has said, practice soldering. It will make all your connections much simpler and much more reliable than relying on plugs, choc blocks, etc.

[Jules59]

Mountain
thanks for the heads up I was hoping to spilt up the controlled areas somehow so I will research cab control as suggested .

Jules

[Jules59]

Bigmet
Thanks for your input

The roundhouse design was to break the layout up and give myself at least a little part which wasn't in a straight line and to conserve point work and space. Any particular reason for not going this route ?

I can solder im just nervous of cutting brand new pointwork as I cannot see why its is necessary given it has come from PECO as is and can see no advantage as yet tho I haven't any experience of using Electrofrog points so I may stand corrected


Jules

[Jules59]

Abenn

I have yet to delve into the electrical mechanics of electrofrog wiring but it seems odd to cut what the manufacturer has provided and isolate the frog completely when its polarity is controlled by the side bars connected to it and whichever direction the point is set too. Btw this is in N gauge and therefore also quite a fiddly project to start hacking and soldering

Jules

[Roger (RJ)]

To the best of my knowledge point modifications aren't normally recommended for N gauge. It is usually advised for 00 gauge to overcome problems of poor electrical continuity through the switch rails and to prevent short circuits when metal wheels pass through the frog or common crossing area. The different wheel standards of N gauge locos don't cause this problem.

I stand to be corrected by more knowledgeable folk.

[abenn]

Jules59. I'm pretty sure Roger (RJ) is right: I remember cutting electrofrog wires when I was setting up my 00-gauge layout, but I don't remember having to do that at all when I built my N-gauge layout.

[Tom@Crewe]

I would join the turn table long spur to the sidings and not the inner loop