Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Post all your model railway electronic problems, solutions and discoverys here.
User avatar
Pierlùk
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:57 pm

Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby Pierlùk » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:43 am

Hello,
can I convert Peco insulfrog points (ST-240/241) to electrofrog points ? Thanks. Sorry if this question has been asked too many times before. :oops:

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 12280
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:31 pm

It depends how brave you are. Many years ago I did it to some Peco settrack points. The first step is to file up a pair of new frog rails, long enough to span from the tip of the frog to the end of the existing rail. Settrack points have an added complication they have a fishplate spot welded to one of the rails. Streamline points you only have the link wires to contend with. Once you've cut them it's a case of getting the rail hot with a soldering iron and pulling it out like a dentist pulling teeth. Once you have the two bit's of rail out you need to cut away the plastic frog, and push in the two new bits of rail, putting the soldering iron on the tip as you push. It's a good idea to do all this with the point pinned down. Would need some convincing to do it again especially on a more expensive streamline point. There's a simpler way to do it painting the plastic frog with the liquid silver "paint" that they sell (at exorbitant prices" for repairing the tracks on heated rear windows (usually in estate cars where someone has closed the tailgate on a sharp cornered box). I read the instructions and looked at the price of a minute bottle of the magic stuff, it makes electrofrog points look cheap.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
Pierlùk
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:57 pm

Re: Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby Pierlùk » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:30 pm

Thank you very much Bufferstop for your very helpful and interesting reply. Due to my extremely limited skills :oops: it's too difficult for me. I'll buy electrofrog points. A better solution for me.

Suzie
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:46 pm

Re: Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby Suzie » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:15 pm

The silver paint does work and can be the easy solution if the point has already been laid or a live frog version is not available. A little bottle does last a while because you don't need much of it, but you will need to touch it up from time to time. Link the frog rails together to make your live frog connection.

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 12280
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:05 am

I suppose the price of the silver solution came as a bit of a shock was when my original bottle, bought from the garage and put on my service account ran out. The original problem was a group of engineers with identical estate cars with a beak in the same track on the rear window. Realising what was causing it and getting a DIY solution was a darned sight cheaper than replacing multiple rear screens. I hung on to it and it was only when it ran out years after I'd retired was a surprise.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

b308
Posts: 5006
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby b308 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:20 am

It sounds as though it'd been just as easy to build a whole new point, Bufferstop! I can't see the point into trying conversions like this, just buy the electrofrog in the first place, or, if buying secondhand, wait until s/h electrofrog ones come up for sale!

User avatar
Free_at_last
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:12 pm
Location: Liverpool

Re: Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby Free_at_last » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:31 pm

b308 wrote: I can't see the point into trying conversions like this, just buy the electrofrog in the first place, or, if buying secondhand, wait until s/h electrofrog ones come up for sale!

But if there is no electrofrog option available it has to be done. I did this with my Peco code 100 single and double slips.
Frog 2.jpg
Frog 2.jpg (45.55 KiB) Viewed 1372 times

Frog 3.jpg
Pete.
Gauge is not spelt guage. Remember to put another "m" in remeber. Manufacturers has two "r"s in.
When you buy something, you have bought it, not brought it.
Before you post, are you really LOL and do you NEED to tell us?

User avatar
Free_at_last
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:12 pm
Location: Liverpool

Re: Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby Free_at_last » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:49 pm

Needing to install a turnout across a baseboard join and never having done it before I didn't want to ruin a new one so decided to try it on an old insulfrog one I had. Before installing it I made a new crossing nose with a small piece of rail filed to an arrow head, cut away most of the plastic nose and melted the new one in with a soldering iron finally soldering it in and filing to shape.
It looks a bit rough but has been well tested electrically and mechanically so is staying put and weathering and ballasting should improve its appearance.
Frog 4.jpg
Pete.
Gauge is not spelt guage. Remember to put another "m" in remeber. Manufacturers has two "r"s in.
When you buy something, you have bought it, not brought it.
Before you post, are you really LOL and do you NEED to tell us?

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 12280
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:46 pm

A brave act that paid off. Did you put in new "hinges" on the cut line. I did something similar, with the cut going through the crossing immediately in front of the point of the frog. The point was at the entry to the fiddle yard so was clear of the scenery. I put a couple of hinges for alignment across the join and elongated the holes on one side so that I could adjust the alignment then screw it down tight, it survived about four years and still worked ok when I rebuilt the layout on new boards.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
Free_at_last
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:12 pm
Location: Liverpool

Re: Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby Free_at_last » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:12 pm

Did you put in new "hinges" on the cut line.


The layout is a permanent fixture in a 16x8 shed but the board ends are dowelled and bolted together. I am making it so they can easily be removed on my demise in case it can hopefully be found a new home.
Pete.
Gauge is not spelt guage. Remember to put another "m" in remeber. Manufacturers has two "r"s in.
When you buy something, you have bought it, not brought it.
Before you post, are you really LOL and do you NEED to tell us?

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 12280
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:57 pm

The conversion process was devised by none other than CJ Freezer in the only real disagreement he had with Sidney Pritchard, over the need for electrofrog points. In the end Mr P gave way as Graham Farish produced their version which many people considered superior to the Peco product. Being the gent that he was CJF never made capital of the incident. The Grafar "Formoway" track disappeared when they dropped their 00 range to concentrate on N gauge.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
pete12345
Posts: 1006
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:53 pm
Location: Coventry

Re: Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby pete12345 » Wed May 27, 2020 4:19 pm

I've been looking into this as I may need to use a setrack Y point as well as a double slip to make my MPD work. How about simply grinding out the plastic part, then cutting and filing a triangular section of brass/nickel-silver/steel to fit the gap and soldering it in place? Seems simpler than pulling out and replacing the entire rail.
Once an engine attached to a train, was afraid of a few drops of rain...

User avatar
Free_at_last
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:12 pm
Location: Liverpool

Re: Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby Free_at_last » Wed May 27, 2020 9:21 pm

pete12345 wrote:I've been looking into this as I may need to use a setrack Y point as well as a double slip to make my MPD work. How about simply grinding out the plastic part, then cutting and filing a triangular section of brass/nickel-silver/steel to fit the gap and soldering it in place? Seems simpler than pulling out and replacing the entire rail.

That is what I did to the turnout I cut in half a couple of posts above.
I used an old insulfrog turnout as a practice run cutting it in half but then decided to leave it in and I converted it to live frog by shaping an 'arrow head' from a piece of rail with the body thin enough to fit where the insulation is between the two V rails, went a little overboard with the solder to make up any gaps then filed to shape. Remember to remove the bonding links to the V rails.
Pete.
Gauge is not spelt guage. Remember to put another "m" in remeber. Manufacturers has two "r"s in.
When you buy something, you have bought it, not brought it.
Before you post, are you really LOL and do you NEED to tell us?

User avatar
pete12345
Posts: 1006
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:53 pm
Location: Coventry

Re: Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby pete12345 » Wed May 27, 2020 9:31 pm

Free_at_last wrote:Remember to remove the bonding links to the V rails.


My plan was to leave these in place, cut isolating breaks in the closure rails the other side and use a separate polarity switch for the live frog. So the whole point is fully converted into electrofrog. My double and single slips might need a bit more ingenuity.
Once an engine attached to a train, was afraid of a few drops of rain...

User avatar
Free_at_last
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:12 pm
Location: Liverpool

Re: Converting Peco insulfrog to electrofrog ?

Postby Free_at_last » Wed May 27, 2020 11:36 pm

pete12345 wrote:
Free_at_last wrote:Remember to remove the bonding links to the V rails.


My plan was to leave these in place, cut isolating breaks in the closure rails the other side and use a separate polarity switch for the live frog. So the whole point is fully converted into electrofrog.

Ah yes, cutting the turnout in half did this for me, also the pcb bonding the closure and stock rails. I also filled in the gap between the wing and closure rails with solder and tidied up with a file.
Pete.
Gauge is not spelt guage. Remember to put another "m" in remeber. Manufacturers has two "r"s in.
When you buy something, you have bought it, not brought it.
Before you post, are you really LOL and do you NEED to tell us?


Return to “Electronics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests