Wiring Layout

Post all your model railway electronic problems, solutions and discoverys here.
markpt1
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:27 am

Wiring Layout

Postby markpt1 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:15 am

Hi all,
I have just returned to railway modelling, after some years away from it. My Dad would have helped me with the wiring, but he is no longer with us, so have no one to ask for help any more. As you can see I have a new layout plan and track is down. Plan reads from right to left if plans were placed side by side. A end-to-end layout. Blue is isolating sections and Red & Yellow are points. Wiring up the points I have no problem with, its the track power feeds and where to place them. The layout is DC analogue run with Insulfrog points.

Can anyone mark on the plans where i should pace the power feeds ?

Thank you for any help you can give me.

Mark
Attachments
Track Plan 1 & 2.jpg
Track Plan 3.jpg

User avatar
minipix
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:29 pm

Re: Wiring Layout

Postby minipix » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:40 pm

It's a bit difficult to see with this 'split' diagram - any chance you can join them together so we can see an overview?

In general, with DC, I would add power feeds before the points split. Unlike with DCC where everything needs power at all times, with DC you often end up using the points to control isolation as well, i.e. the track would only have power if the points were set to that direction. Things can get complicated with lots of points. It's also worth taking into account how many locos you plan on running at any one time, and whether you want them to run independently of each other; cab control can be very clever (I use this technique on my layout), but it's likely to be really complex on a layout with as many points as you've got!

To keep things simple, I'd recommend having a common negative rail, so you've only got the positive feed to worry about.

If you can give us a complete overview of the track plan, I'm sure someone on here will be able to help.
Frontington & Backwoods Railway: https://www.matthewdawkins.co.uk/catego ... way-build/
LocoSound - sound effects for DC model railways: https://mafu-d.github.io/loco-sound

markpt1
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:27 am

Re: Wiring Layout

Postby markpt1 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:32 pm

What the plan looks like all joined up
Attachments
Large Track Plan.jpg

User avatar
minipix
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:29 pm

Re: Wiring Layout

Postby minipix » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:10 pm

Thanks, that really helps put it all into context. My initial concerns still stand though - this is a massively complicated layout to be running on DC.

On DC, a great piece of advice I've heard is to remember that you're driving the rails, not the loco. Wherever your controller is connected to, you're sending a forward/backward signal to whatever is electrically available. I notice you've got a lot of isolating sections, which suggests to me that you're planning for a lot of locos on the layout? Even if you get the wiring sorted, it'll likely be a mammoth task to mentally keep track of what locos are 'live' based on the position of all those points. As much as I love DC, I'd be strongly recommending DCC at this point.

I think the principles of cab control are probably still useful here. Divide the layout into logical sections, so that you can 'drive' just one part of the layout at a time, or at least only the parts that you are currently concerned with. Then it's a case of adding your power feed somewhere central to that section such that you can reach all parts of that section electrically using the position of the points. Because of the layout's design, you're going to end up with some necessarily really small sections in places.

A couple of important questions: 1) how many controllers are you planning on using, and 2) how many locos do you plan on running?
Frontington & Backwoods Railway: https://www.matthewdawkins.co.uk/catego ... way-build/
LocoSound - sound effects for DC model railways: https://mafu-d.github.io/loco-sound

User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 4123
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Wiring Layout

Postby Mountain » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:13 pm

It is not too difficult with DC if one splits it into sections. How many controllers? It depends how many operators as with cab control one simply switches ones controller in or out of the track sections one needs to use. If not wiring for cab control it will need quite a few controllers as one will then need to dedicated a controller to each section which is not a good plan for this type of layout.
I would recommend two controllers with cab control, and if the controllers are suitable, and have been wired for common return, to also use common return to save on wiring, as it will need a lot of wiring.
DCC does simplify things on a large layout like this. Luxury on the wiring side, but rather costly and time consuming to fit all the decoders. This type of design DCC will have the advantage, but DC is also practical. DCC will reduce and simplify the wiring.

Are you looking at electrofrog or insulfrog points? There are differences to how the layout is wired (Where isolating railjoiners are needed).

As a general rule for both wiring methods with DC and splitting the layout into sections, any pairs of points pointing forward against each other (E.g. at a facing or trailing crossing) there needs to be isolating railjoiners between these points.
Any back to back points (Even where there is normal track inbetween) need a power feed.
There are books available to explain in more depth. Brian Lambert's book comes to mind. He also has a website going to help modellers and it is well worth a look.
Brian is known as "Flashbang" on this site.

User avatar
minipix
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:29 pm

Re: Wiring Layout

Postby minipix » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:56 pm

I've had a go at marking out where you'd need to add power, and where you'd need to isolate the track to create the different sections. Hope it helps!

Out of interest, does anyone know if this approach would be required for DCC as well?
Attachments
track wiring plan.jpg
Frontington & Backwoods Railway: https://www.matthewdawkins.co.uk/catego ... way-build/
LocoSound - sound effects for DC model railways: https://mafu-d.github.io/loco-sound

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 4540
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Wiring Layout

Postby End2end » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:08 pm

For such a complex layout I'd echo minipix's sentiment.
minipix wrote:I'd be strongly recommending DCC at this point.

As a kid (pre-dcc) I used to look at these complex DC layouts in model magazines and the wiring and isolation was a massive headache that seemed extremely over complicated. DCC in comparison (to an amature) seems easy.
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 4123
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Wiring Layout

Postby Mountain » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:35 pm

It is not complicated to wire up in DC. It is more that there will be a lot of it to wire up. How's things going with the plans Markpt1?

markpt1
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:27 am

Re: Wiring Layout

Postby markpt1 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:01 pm

Sorry I have not got back to you, been busy rebuilding the back garden and waiting for a new garage door to be done. So layout was put on hold. Wiring is coming along, which is building my confidence. Work has also started on the scratch built viaducts needed for the layout. Will try and get some photos taken soon and post up. DC work for me so will stick with it.


Return to “Electronics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests