Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

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mikehextall
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Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby mikehextall » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:44 pm

Can anyone point me in the direction of a diagram that shows me how I would light an LED to indicate point position on a control panel when using the Seep PM1? The only way I can find online shows the LED lit momentarily as the point is thrown and then goes off once the SPDT switch returns to centre.

Thanks
Mike

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End2end
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Re: Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby End2end » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:51 pm

Here you go. :)
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44866&start=60#p558472
And...
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44866&start=75#p562262

The point position LED's need thier own power supply seprate from the points power supply.
Thanks
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Re: Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby mikehextall » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:02 pm

Thanks, that really helps a lot but it also confuses me slightly. The diagrams I have seen up to now all say that contact 'F' on the PM1 is for frog polarity but in your diagram, it does not mention the frog. Also, 'D' and 'E' are for rails but again yours shows just LED's, can I incorporate both the LED's and the frog polarity switching?

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Re: Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby End2end » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:14 pm

Oh sorry yes I should have mentioned I'm not powering the frog from the seep.I'm using dead frog points.
As you noticed, I'm using that part of the seep to light the panel mounted LED's.
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Re: Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby End2end » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:17 pm

mikehextall wrote:can I incorporate both the LED's and the frog polarity switching?

I'll wait for a more experienced answer but in my mind as the frog needs constant power I would assume so.
But it's only an assumption.
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Flashbang
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Re: Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby Flashbang » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:27 pm

Hi
If you're using the D,E & F for frog polarity then you can't use them for anything else on Analogue (DC) layouts. Different though if on DCC (Digital).

I suggest you may like to consider using ready built twin coil latching relay units such as the Gaugemaster GM500 http://www.gaugemaster.com/search_results.asp or build your own using a 12volt twin coil latching relay and a few diodes. Example..http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical%20page%202.html#Unable Relays are fairly easy to obtain ...https://www.bitsbox.co.uk/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=latching+relay Item No SW105
The relay is operated by the momentary pulse to each coil and eitehr latches or unlatches mechanically depending on which coil received=s the pulse. Via the double set of change over contacts (DPDT) you can switch two separate circuits
Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

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Re: Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby End2end » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:49 pm

Flashbang wrote:Different though if on DCC (Digital).

Can you elaborate on the DCC side please Flashbang?
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Re: Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby mikehextall » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:00 pm

End2end wrote:
Flashbang wrote:Different though if on DCC (Digital).

Can you elaborate on the DCC side please Flashbang?
Thanks
End2end


Yes please elaborate as I am using DCC.

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Re: Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby Flashbang » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:11 pm

You use the DCC to both feed the frog and indication LEDs. Much the same as shown here for LED only feeding...http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC%202.html#Point second, third or fourth drawings. Connecting LED wiring to rails or use Seep D, E & F instead of the rails.
Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

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Re: Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby End2end » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:47 pm

That's excellent. Thanks Flashbang.
So although I've used dead frogs I could actually power the mimic panel LED's direct from the track instead of the Seep if I wanted to.
All the points already laid have insulated fishplates on the vee rails.
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Flashbang
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Re: Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby Flashbang » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:22 pm

Yes even Insulated frog points can be used on DCC
Image
Adding inverse diodes will help protect the LEDs.I would use1N4148 across the LEDs.

Post edited to replace drawing which now shows inverse diodes.
Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

mikehextall
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Re: Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby mikehextall » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:51 pm

Ah yes, that will work perfectly, thanks both.

mikehextall
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Re: Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby mikehextall » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:31 am

I discovered this last night while browsing Youtube, it does exactly as we have discussed in this thread.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLOCKsignalling-PPI4-Points-Position-Indicator-PPI-RED-GREEN-LED-Points-Motor/160983721408?hash=item257b60a5c0:g:Zl8AAOSwWnFWAqX6

And this excellent Youtube video to go with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXXORgfXEt0

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Re: Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby End2end » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:05 pm

I did see that product before Mike but I think it's rather expensive just to keep an LED lit.
That plus I'd need at least 2 for the amount of points I have.

I'll probably stick wth the seep method but a question arose if you will please Flashbang.
What rating would the diodes need to be if wiring direct to the track, and also are diodes directional. I.E. they only work one way round unlike resistors?
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Flashbang
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Re: Seep PM1 Point Motors with constantly lit LED's

Postby Flashbang » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:10 pm

End2end wrote:<Snip>
I'll probably stick wth the seep method but a question arose if you will please Flashbang.
What rating would the diodes need to be if wiring direct to the track, and also are diodes directional. I.E. they only work one way round unlike resistors?
Thanks
End2end

Hi
Yes diodes are like LEDs and are directional. Both are drawn the same with the line cutting vertical at the end of the arrowhead, this is the Cathode end (Negative end) of the diode and is denoted by a band at one end on the actual diode. So they do not work either way around. They can be considered as one way valves to the flow of power.

As for ratings? (Types?) a 1N4148 is ideal or the slightly larger 1N4001 or 1N4002 are fine to use as inverse diodes to the LEDs.
An alternative is to place a diode in the feed wire where the LED is and in the lead from the DCC supply - one in each feed and installed in the same direction as the LED. i.e. A series Diode to the LED.

See amended drawing above which shows inverse diodes.

Note; if many DCC fed LEDs are to be used, say on a mimic panel, then its worth running two DCC bus wires into the panel and using these as the feeds for each LED then only the frog wires are needed to go back to the layout.

Finally, the use of Point Indication boards is OK, but they only indicate the position of the actual point operating switch or lever not the position of the points themselves!
Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.


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