Senic lighting help.

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champion
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Senic lighting help.

Postby champion » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:44 am

Hi all
1st i am using grain of rice bulbs in numbers to light up my layout in buildings etc.I am running them from a twin controller gaugemaster from the dc outputs some with on-off switches.After around 30mins i have noticed them go out which i assume is they are overloading the controller.Is there anyway around this or as stated only so many can overload a controller.Any advice will be greatfull.I must add this controller does not power the track but i use the ac surply to power the points which all work ok,and its just the lights.

regards.
richard.
D1011 western thunderer.
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sishades
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Re: Senic lighting help.

Postby sishades » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:52 am

I had the same problem earlier this week. I noticed that my lights were going off for a split second. Then the power to my layout was going off. My lights were drawing too much power and over heating the controller causing a cut out. By switching off my lights the problem went away.
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Re: Senic lighting help.

Postby hobby boy » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:57 am

The lights are using more power then the controller can handle. Try LEDs instead as they use very little current, don't get hot and can be really bright. You will have to put a resistor in series with it if your using a higher voltage than the voltage of the LED.

Andrew
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champion
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Re: Senic lighting help.

Postby champion » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:14 am

I must add although advice is what i thought,which means possible another dc controller as changing all to LEDS is not possible is some areas.But will look into this as thought LEDs only run on ac.

richard.
D1011 western thunderer.
Fav loco class 52 Western
R.I.P Old oak common
Layout Old oak common hydraulic heydays its future in the balance.

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hobby boy
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Re: Senic lighting help.

Postby hobby boy » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:25 am

Actually LEDs run on dc, if you want to run them on ac, you'll have to put a diode in series with it before the resistor to make it dc. Remember, on dc, the short leg goes to the "-" and the longer leg goes to the "+"terminal.

Andrew
I have this engine like the picture :) GWR 0-6-0 Pannier tank
Check out Andrew's layout Hookstoke Junction UPDATED! Should do more work as it's now the Easter Holidays :) After the holdiays are over, my layout won't get updated much Age = 15

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Bufferstop
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Re: Senic lighting help.

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:44 am

If you are running filament bulbs embedded in your buildings the first thing to ensure is that they are running below full voltage, otherwise one day soon you're going to have to replace them. The usual advice is to try putting them in pairs in series. If this makes them too dim you need to find the minimum voltage they need to give the light you want. Keeping down the voltage will reduce the current they can draw. It's generally reckoned that 90% of marked voltage makes little difference to the light output but extends bulb life by years. The controlled output of an old H&M resistance mat controller, or something similar, would be OK. You can always remove the knob once you've set the voltage.
PS if you don't already have a multimeter to check the voltage, get one now. They're relatively cheap these days, and particularly useful when it comes to tracing wiring faults.
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Re: Senic lighting help.

Postby Essex2Visuvesi » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:36 am

hobby boy wrote:Actually LEDs run on dc, if you want to run them on ac, you'll have to put a diode in series with it before the resistor to make it dc. Remember, on dc, the short leg goes to the "-" and the longer leg goes to the "+"terminal.

Andrew



This is not always the case.... some of the LEDS I have bought in the past have equal length legs with the +ve being identified by a wider leg at the base of the LED
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Re: Senic lighting help.

Postby hobby boy » Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:19 pm

Essex2Visuvesi wrote:
hobby boy wrote:Actually LEDs run on dc, if you want to run them on ac, you'll have to put a diode in series with it before the resistor to make it dc. Remember, on dc, the short leg goes to the "-" and the longer leg goes to the "+"terminal.

Andrew



This is not always the case.... some of the LEDS I have bought in the past have equal length legs with the +ve being identified by a wider leg at the base of the LED

Or if you aren't really sure, get a meaty multer (oops). I mean multi meter and put it on diode mode (has a little diode sign). Then you can find out which way that way.

Andrew
I have this engine like the picture :) GWR 0-6-0 Pannier tank
Check out Andrew's layout Hookstoke Junction UPDATED! Should do more work as it's now the Easter Holidays :) After the holdiays are over, my layout won't get updated much Age = 15

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champion
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Re: Senic lighting help.

Postby champion » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:37 am

Many thanks for the advice.
will look into options of getting LED Lights for replacing some.Can someone also tell me what farish/dapol use in there light fitted locos and can they be brought as i believe the standard size LED starts from 3mm.

regards.
richard.
D1011 western thunderer.
Fav loco class 52 Western
R.I.P Old oak common
Layout Old oak common hydraulic heydays its future in the balance.

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Re: Senic lighting help.

Postby Essex2Visuvesi » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:06 am

look in new modellers shop on the home page he has some LEDs there :)
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Re: Senic lighting help.

Postby hobby boy » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:16 pm

Maplins is a good source of LEDs, the lucky bags are quite good, but it will be better for you to get the velleman value pack as the LEDs are the same
http://www.maplin.co.uk

Andrew
I have this engine like the picture :) GWR 0-6-0 Pannier tank
Check out Andrew's layout Hookstoke Junction UPDATED! Should do more work as it's now the Easter Holidays :) After the holdiays are over, my layout won't get updated much Age = 15

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Re: Senic lighting help.

Postby Flashbang » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:55 pm

champion wrote:Hi all
1st i am using grain of rice bulbs in numbers to light up my layout in buildings etc.I am running them from a twin controller gaugemaster from the dc outputs some with on-off switches.After around 30mins i have noticed them go out which i assume is they are overloading the controller.Is there anyway around this or as stated only so many can overload a controller.Any advice will be greatfull.I must add this controller does not power the track but i use the ac surply to power the points which all work ok,and its just the lights.

regards.
richard.

Hi
This is obviously caused by overloading of the power supplies.
Its very easily done when using small filament lamps, due to their current draw demands - often 60 to 80 milliamps each lamp.
So for example 13 lamps at 80ma (0.08A) will demand 1.04Amp which is over the 1.0Amp rating of most power supplies!

LEDs are the answer, but if replacing the filament lamps isnt that easy then consider a better and regulated 12 volt power supply. 'Regulated' means the voltage remains constant regardless of loading placed upon it up to its maximum rating.
Example...http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=48517
or
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=48908
These both have user adjustable output voltages, so it may be possible to run the lamps at a lower voltage than 12v and prolong their life considerably without overly reducing their luminosity?
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champion
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Re: Senic lighting help.

Postby champion » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:49 pm

Brought some from maplins 2day.
trail and error talk about it.I blew the 1st 2 as fitted the resistor to the wrong wire.Whoops.but got this info from a forum somewhere that states the long wire,it was found they run fitted from the short.

richard.
D1011 western thunderer.
Fav loco class 52 Western
R.I.P Old oak common
Layout Old oak common hydraulic heydays its future in the balance.

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Re: Senic lighting help.

Postby Flashbang » Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:29 pm

champion wrote:Brought some from maplins 2day.
trail and error talk about it.I blew the 1st 2 as fitted the resistor to the wrong wire.Whoops.but got this info from a forum somewhere that states the long wire,it was found they run fitted from the short.

richard.

Hi
You can wire a series current limiting resistor (nominally 1K0 1/4watt of hight wattage) to either leg of an LED. It really doesn't matter which one, so long as there is one either directly before or immediately after the LED. But do keep them all the same where several LEDs are being wired, as it makes for later alteration of fault finding so much easier. :D

LEDs normally do have one lead longer than the other! Anode (Positive) is normally the longer one of the two. Some also use a flat on the side of the LED to denote polarity.
Often the flat is the Cathode (Negative) and shorter lead side.

AFASIK all those supplied by Maplin Electronics are to this longer lead equals Anode configuration.

If you can give the Maplin LED part number and your supply voltage, we can probably help you further.

But whatever type of LED purchased, reference should always be made to the Specification sheet for that LED, as this gives some important information. Such as - Long lead/flat of case or other such marking = Anode or Cathode lead, the LEDs Forward Voltage and Forward Current ratings etc. From these values the correct minimum resistor value can be calculated as required.

Note; there are also available 12 volt and 5 volt rated LEDs, which have a factory fitted resistor and can run happily when connected directly to their rated supply volts, so no external series resistor is needed, but of course observing correct wiring polarity!
:D

Examples of simple LED wiring....
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Boddney
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Re: Senic lighting help.

Postby Boddney » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:22 pm

Hang on a mo, I get proper confused with all this ac/dc stuff.
I bought a job lot of different colour led's from a guy on ebay that he showed in his pictures and description were for running on loco's with a resistor that he also supplied.

I followed his instructions and they work ok, (track runs on dc, correct????)

Then I ran a series of the same led's with the same resistors to light up my buildings from the ac outlet on the controller and they work fine too.

You get my confusion???? :? :? :?

Bod
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