Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Basic electrical and electronics, such as DC/Analog control.
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chris_geeza
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Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by chris_geeza »

Can someone point in the right direction for a power supply for points on my layout,
layout is a small oo gauge 6x4.

Going to use hornby surface point motors and a Gaugemaster CDU Capacitor Discharge Unit.

I have an nce dcc controller but need a seperate source of power for the point motors which are hornby surface mounted motors.
A link would be nice to a power source.
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Flashbang
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Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by Flashbang »

Hi
As you're using analogue point control rather than DCC and a CDU too (good choice!) your power supply can be something like a Hornby C990 wall plug in unit giving 16volts at 800ma ac, a Gaugemaster M1 unit or even an ex laptop PSU offering around 18 to 20 volts dc. Or any old dc unused train set controller, now that you're DCC, use the 16volt uncontrolled output provided on the controller.

You of course will need some means of switching the point motors direction. You can use Hornby R044 Black Passing Contact switches (expensive IMO), Peco PL26 passing contact levers or the cheaper option of SPDT miniature toggle switches of the non locking sprung to centre off type. (On)-Off-(On) Brackets denoting the lever cant remain in that position. Or even Stud & Probe.
Example of non locking toggle switch The switch shown at the top of the page switch is the one.

ebay example of a Hornby C990 PSU
Gaugemaster M1 unit Scroll down to find the M1.

Example of Laptop PSU Note; this particular example requires a separate mains power cord - which is easily obtainable.
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D0260
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Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by D0260 »

Another good source for high power , yet physically small 16V -ish power supplies is Laptop computers , and the replacement market.
Typically 16V at up to 7Amps output , fully protected for £12-£15 at computer fairs , probably a lot less second hand.
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Flashbang
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Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by Flashbang »

Yeap, That's what I mentioned and provided a link to in my reply above. Though a 16 volt dc laptop PSU may be fairly hard to find? as most are in the range of 18 to 20 volts dc.
This higher dc voltage doesn't really matter, as this is an ideal dc voltage for solenoid motors anyway.
16 volts ac is the RMS value, so its peak voltage is actually a little more than the 20 volts a dc laptop PSU would provide, which is also regulated dc volts. (Maintained constantly at the rated output voltage regardless of loading applied, up to its maximum rating).
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noel
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Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by noel »

+

........... and of course carefully choose your colour coding of wires
under the tables, to ensure the two supplies do not come to short
each other out.

+
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Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by Eastern »

I've been using a redundant Hornby C990 and find it works fine supplying power to switch a Peco PL-10 + PL-13. I am also using PL-26 passing contact switches. Haven't used a CDU at this point- as everything seems to be working ok.
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chris_geeza
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Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by chris_geeza »

My NCE POWER CAB v1.28 doesnt have an 16v ac output on it, thats why i was thinking of using analogue system.
Would it cost much more to run the points of dcc? can i use the power of the track or something?
List so far then hornby C990 wall plug by itself and some spdt toggle switches, dam i bought the wrong ones i got (on-on) ones.
SO i think i just split the wires on the adaptor one + and one - to a output block of some kind then onto the points?
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Essex2Visuvesi
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Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by Essex2Visuvesi »

chris_geeza wrote:My NCE POWER CAB v1.28 doesnt have an 16v ac output on it, thats why i was thinking of using analogue system.
Would it cost much more to run the points of dcc? can i use the power of the track or something?
List so far then hornby C990 wall plug by itself and some spdt toggle switches, dam i bought the wrong ones i got (on-on) ones :(
and gaugemaster CDU.
You can use the on on ones with some creative wiring Im sure Flashbang or one of the others can point you in the right direction
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Flashbang
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Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by Flashbang »

Hi
On-On toggle switches can only be used with the CDU if you add a Push to make momentary (non locking) push button into the circuit.
The push button can be inserted into one or more than one switch. However, if more than one switch is controlled by the push button then all point motors controlled by that push button will operate (receive a pulse of power) at the same time even if they are already in the required position. So at times its not the ideal option!
The basic wiring is shown here...http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/el ... itches.htm Scroll down to view the third drawing.

I would, as you're going to buy push button switches, consider not using PB switches at all and replace the On - On switches with momentary (On)-Off-(On) types. Rapid sell them cheaper than most places. Rapid toggle switches Part Number 75-0086. They are £0.60p each or even cheaper if you obtain a bulk buy.


DCC operation would mean the purchase of Accessory Decoders, which often have four separate output ports for feeding four motors. Some accessory decoders have 6 or 8 output ports. They cost from around £30ish each upwards depending on make etc.
Example http://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/ac ... 6-561.html

One last thing and regardless of the operating method. Do use as a minimum 16/0.2mm wire for all feeds and returns to/from the switches or accessory decoders to the motors and to feed the switches from the CDU. You can of course increase the wire size without problem but don't under rate it!
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chris_geeza
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Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by chris_geeza »

After looking around now im thinking of going with some sort of ACCESSORY decoder, like hornby one or some other make that takes its power from the track and has a cdu built in.
Just got to now decide on which one :)
In the long run less wires and less messing around with toggle switches
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Flashbang
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Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by Flashbang »

chris_geeza wrote:After looking around now im thinking of going with some sort of ACCESSORY decoder, like hornby one or some other make that takes its power from the track and has a cdu built in.
Just got to now decide on which one :)
In the long run less wires and less messing around with toggle switches
Far more entering of digits into the console/throttle though. :(
All the while leaving the locos running doing their own thing! :wink: :wink:

IMO Unless you're considering later computer control, I would stay with analogue control! Cost of the accessory decoders alone is large!
Don't forget you will rob the DCC rails of power every time the accessory decoder recharges its CDU.
The better way is for DCC accessory decoder(s) to use a totally separate power feed (PSU) to charge the internal CDU, if a CDU is fitted - not all have them, and these then only use the data from the DCC systems rails or bus to control the accessory decoder.
One such is the Bachmann / ESU 36-561 accessory decoder I linked to previously. The Hornby ones cant do this!
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hobby boy
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Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by hobby boy »

thinking about it, isn't the voltage used for dcc 15 vollts and you need a minimum of 16 volts for point motors

Andrew
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58001
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Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by 58001 »

hobby boy wrote:thinking about it, isn't the voltage used for dcc 15 vollts and you need a minimum of 16 volts for point motors

Andrew

The hornby point motors will work just fine on 15 volts AC (the last one i bought a couple of years ago, stated on the packet that it will run
between 12 and 18 volts AC or DC)
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Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by hobby boy »

well when i tried with another transformer of 15v ac, the point motors wouldn't budge at all. Now i know why they recomment 16 volts and higher.

Andrew
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Essex2Visuvesi
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Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post by Essex2Visuvesi »

chris_geeza wrote:After looking around now im thinking of going with some sort of ACCESSORY decoder, like hornby one or some other make that takes its power from the track and has a cdu built in.
Just got to now decide on which one :)
In the long run less wires and less messing around with toggle switches

http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 28&t=27556

Theres some here :)
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