Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Post all your model railway electronic problems, solutions and discoverys here.
User avatar
chris_geeza
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:06 pm
Location: West Mids, Bloxwich

Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby chris_geeza » Mon May 10, 2010 2:32 pm

Can someone point in the right direction for a power supply for points on my layout,
layout is a small oo gauge 6x4.

Going to use hornby surface point motors and a Gaugemaster CDU Capacitor Discharge Unit.

I have an nce dcc controller but need a seperate source of power for the point motors which are hornby surface mounted motors.
A link would be nice to a power source.

User avatar
Flashbang
Posts: 3357
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:07 pm
Location: SE United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby Flashbang » Mon May 10, 2010 3:08 pm

Hi
As you're using analogue point control rather than DCC and a CDU too (good choice!) your power supply can be something like a Hornby C990 wall plug in unit giving 16volts at 800ma ac, a Gaugemaster M1 unit or even an ex laptop PSU offering around 18 to 20 volts dc. Or any old dc unused train set controller, now that you're DCC, use the 16volt uncontrolled output provided on the controller.

You of course will need some means of switching the point motors direction. You can use Hornby R044 Black Passing Contact switches (expensive IMO), Peco PL26 passing contact levers or the cheaper option of SPDT miniature toggle switches of the non locking sprung to centre off type. (On)-Off-(On) Brackets denoting the lever cant remain in that position. Or even Stud & Probe.
Example of non locking toggle switch The switch shown at the top of the page switch is the one.

ebay example of a Hornby C990 PSU
Gaugemaster M1 unit Scroll down to find the M1.

Example of Laptop PSU Note; this particular example requires a separate mains power cord - which is easily obtainable.
[Image << Click the Icon to go to my website
Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

D0260
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:55 pm

Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby D0260 » Mon May 10, 2010 3:49 pm

Another good source for high power , yet physically small 16V -ish power supplies is Laptop computers , and the replacement market.
Typically 16V at up to 7Amps output , fully protected for £12-£15 at computer fairs , probably a lot less second hand.

User avatar
Flashbang
Posts: 3357
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:07 pm
Location: SE United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby Flashbang » Mon May 10, 2010 4:13 pm

Yeap, That's what I mentioned and provided a link to in my reply above. Though a 16 volt dc laptop PSU may be fairly hard to find? as most are in the range of 18 to 20 volts dc.
This higher dc voltage doesn't really matter, as this is an ideal dc voltage for solenoid motors anyway.
16 volts ac is the RMS value, so its peak voltage is actually a little more than the 20 volts a dc laptop PSU would provide, which is also regulated dc volts. (Maintained constantly at the rated output voltage regardless of loading applied, up to its maximum rating).
[Image << Click the Icon to go to my website
Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

noel
Posts: 435
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:27 pm

Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby noel » Mon May 10, 2010 4:15 pm

+

........... and of course carefully choose your colour coding of wires
under the tables, to ensure the two supplies do not come to short
each other out.

+

User avatar
Eastern
Posts: 517
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:21 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon. USA - originally from East Anglia

Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby Eastern » Mon May 10, 2010 4:52 pm

I've been using a redundant Hornby C990 and find it works fine supplying power to switch a Peco PL-10 + PL-13. I am also using PL-26 passing contact switches. Haven't used a CDU at this point- as everything seems to be working ok.
“Sir, Sunday morning, although recurring at regular and well foreseen intervals, always seems to take this railway by surprise.”
William S Gilbert
__________________________

Charles

User avatar
chris_geeza
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:06 pm
Location: West Mids, Bloxwich

Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby chris_geeza » Mon May 10, 2010 5:29 pm

My NCE POWER CAB v1.28 doesnt have an 16v ac output on it, thats why i was thinking of using analogue system.
Would it cost much more to run the points of dcc? can i use the power of the track or something?
List so far then hornby C990 wall plug by itself and some spdt toggle switches, dam i bought the wrong ones i got (on-on) ones.
SO i think i just split the wires on the adaptor one + and one - to a output block of some kind then onto the points?
Attachments
Untitled666.jpg
Untitled666.jpg (85.37 KiB) Viewed 3969 times
Last edited by chris_geeza on Mon May 10, 2010 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Essex2Visuvesi
Posts: 2357
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Finland, Finland, Finland!

Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby Essex2Visuvesi » Mon May 10, 2010 5:32 pm

chris_geeza wrote:My NCE POWER CAB v1.28 doesnt have an 16v ac output on it, thats why i was thinking of using analogue system.
Would it cost much more to run the points of dcc? can i use the power of the track or something?
List so far then hornby C990 wall plug by itself and some spdt toggle switches, dam i bought the wrong ones i got (on-on) ones :(
and gaugemaster CDU.


You can use the on on ones with some creative wiring Im sure Flashbang or one of the others can point you in the right direction
Si quam primum vos operor non successio , impono

The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

Proud member of the OAM
(Order of the Armchair Modeller

User avatar
Flashbang
Posts: 3357
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:07 pm
Location: SE United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby Flashbang » Mon May 10, 2010 5:57 pm

Hi
On-On toggle switches can only be used with the CDU if you add a Push to make momentary (non locking) push button into the circuit.
The push button can be inserted into one or more than one switch. However, if more than one switch is controlled by the push button then all point motors controlled by that push button will operate (receive a pulse of power) at the same time even if they are already in the required position. So at times its not the ideal option!
The basic wiring is shown here...http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/electrics-switches.htm Scroll down to view the third drawing.

I would, as you're going to buy push button switches, consider not using PB switches at all and replace the On - On switches with momentary (On)-Off-(On) types. Rapid sell them cheaper than most places. Rapid toggle switches Part Number 75-0086. They are £0.60p each or even cheaper if you obtain a bulk buy.


DCC operation would mean the purchase of Accessory Decoders, which often have four separate output ports for feeding four motors. Some accessory decoders have 6 or 8 output ports. They cost from around £30ish each upwards depending on make etc.
Example http://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/acatalog/Bachmann-36-561.html

One last thing and regardless of the operating method. Do use as a minimum 16/0.2mm wire for all feeds and returns to/from the switches or accessory decoders to the motors and to feed the switches from the CDU. You can of course increase the wire size without problem but don't under rate it!
:D :D
[Image << Click the Icon to go to my website
Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

User avatar
chris_geeza
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:06 pm
Location: West Mids, Bloxwich

Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby chris_geeza » Mon May 10, 2010 7:03 pm

After looking around now im thinking of going with some sort of ACCESSORY decoder, like hornby one or some other make that takes its power from the track and has a cdu built in.
Just got to now decide on which one :)
In the long run less wires and less messing around with toggle switches

User avatar
Flashbang
Posts: 3357
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:07 pm
Location: SE United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby Flashbang » Mon May 10, 2010 7:20 pm

chris_geeza wrote:After looking around now im thinking of going with some sort of ACCESSORY decoder, like hornby one or some other make that takes its power from the track and has a cdu built in.
Just got to now decide on which one :)
In the long run less wires and less messing around with toggle switches

Far more entering of digits into the console/throttle though. :(
All the while leaving the locos running doing their own thing! :wink: :wink:

IMO Unless you're considering later computer control, I would stay with analogue control! Cost of the accessory decoders alone is large!
Don't forget you will rob the DCC rails of power every time the accessory decoder recharges its CDU.
The better way is for DCC accessory decoder(s) to use a totally separate power feed (PSU) to charge the internal CDU, if a CDU is fitted - not all have them, and these then only use the data from the DCC systems rails or bus to control the accessory decoder.
One such is the Bachmann / ESU 36-561 accessory decoder I linked to previously. The Hornby ones cant do this!
[Image << Click the Icon to go to my website
Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

User avatar
hobby boy
Posts: 430
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:22 am
Location: Basingstoke, Hampshire, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby hobby boy » Mon May 10, 2010 9:40 pm

thinking about it, isn't the voltage used for dcc 15 vollts and you need a minimum of 16 volts for point motors

Andrew
I have this engine like the picture :) GWR 0-6-0 Pannier tank
Check out Andrew's layout Hookstoke Junction UPDATED! Should do more work as it's now the Easter Holidays :) After the holdiays are over, my layout won't get updated much Age = 15

User avatar
58001
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:32 pm

Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby 58001 » Mon May 17, 2010 8:43 pm

hobby boy wrote:thinking about it, isn't the voltage used for dcc 15 vollts and you need a minimum of 16 volts for point motors

Andrew



The hornby point motors will work just fine on 15 volts AC (the last one i bought a couple of years ago, stated on the packet that it will run
between 12 and 18 volts AC or DC)

User avatar
hobby boy
Posts: 430
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:22 am
Location: Basingstoke, Hampshire, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby hobby boy » Mon May 17, 2010 9:32 pm

well when i tried with another transformer of 15v ac, the point motors wouldn't budge at all. Now i know why they recomment 16 volts and higher.

Andrew
I have this engine like the picture :) GWR 0-6-0 Pannier tank
Check out Andrew's layout Hookstoke Junction UPDATED! Should do more work as it's now the Easter Holidays :) After the holdiays are over, my layout won't get updated much Age = 15

User avatar
Essex2Visuvesi
Posts: 2357
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Finland, Finland, Finland!

Re: Help needed, 16 volt ac power supply for points

Postby Essex2Visuvesi » Tue May 18, 2010 2:05 pm

chris_geeza wrote:After looking around now im thinking of going with some sort of ACCESSORY decoder, like hornby one or some other make that takes its power from the track and has a cdu built in.
Just got to now decide on which one :)
In the long run less wires and less messing around with toggle switches



viewtopic.php?f=28&t=27556

Theres some here :)
Si quam primum vos operor non successio , impono

The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

Proud member of the OAM
(Order of the Armchair Modeller


Return to “Electronics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests