Smoke ! (again)

Have any questions or tips and advice on how to build those bits that don't come ready made.
BorderShed
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Smoke ! (again)

Postby BorderShed » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:48 pm

Hi all,
I had a (mad?) idea of adding smoke to my little Nscale building using an eCigarette gubbins.
Not knowing anything about them I bought a cheapo (£4) off ebay to see if it could be adapted, it arrived yesterday and I cant see how to extract the smoke generating bit :( contained in the transparent fluid reservoir of the "atomizer".
Smoke2.jpg

Then I had another bright idea - search the forum ! should have done that first !!
and found this most interesting topic by @TimberSurf (I still have 119 pages of search results to look through :) )
https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=50510
TimberSurf wrote:The element in an E-cigarette is ideal, it just needs some power and suck to produce "Smoke".

from which I have extracted a "picture quote" of the relevant bit :-
Smoke1.jpg
Smoke1.jpg (20.37 KiB) Viewed 1426 times

So the question is do I resort to brute force, ignorance and a hacksaw or does anyone have a bright idea how to get it out ?
(I am not sure if mine is a different model to that of TimberSurf but it looks like it is mounted in a large plastic reservoir which would be easier to keep supplied with fluid, or is that just an enclosure for the air into the intact atomiser)

I hope that all makes sense to you ! :)
Thanks for reading.

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luckymucklebackit
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Re: Smoke ! (again)

Postby luckymucklebackit » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:27 pm

I would be careful if I were you, I have heard stories of these things blowing up if misused.

Jim
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BorderShed
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Location: SW. England

Re: Smoke ! (again)

Postby BorderShed » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:18 pm

Thanks for the warning, good shout.
I have done some quick googling just now and it appears to be related to misuse of the batteries (high energy density Lithium types) not the atomizer (wick and coil) which is the bit that I am playing with.

Keep your fingers xxed and watch out for smoke in SW UK :) !

PS. more research (what did we do before google !) so if I cant reuse the neat little atomizer I have some Kanthal resistance wire on order to build my own vaporising coil ;)

BorderShed
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Re: Smoke ! (again)

Postby BorderShed » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:30 pm

PPS yet more research, and it turns out I didnt need to buy a whole eCig to find out how they work. I could have bought a pack of 10 atomizers (aka clearomizers) for £5.25 :(

That should provide a few sacrificial ones for adjusting-on-test with a hacksaw :twisted: !

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End2end
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Re: Smoke ! (again)

Postby End2end » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:52 am

BorderShed wrote:what did we do before google!

Books / ask Grandad (although the saying "Grandad It" never caught on). :lol:
Can you provide a link for the 10 atomizers for £5.25 if you bought some please BorderShed?
Thanks
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TimberSurf
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Re: Smoke ! (again)

Postby TimberSurf » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:36 pm

Version 2 is here, 3 is here, and the final 4 is here. After much investigation, making my own chamber or making the element is pointless, just solder wires to were the battery was for external power and pipe outlet to the chimney. You will need a pump and voltage control of both the pump and element as it is critical, as is, the time on, else you will melt the assembly (hence there is no video of version 1!)
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Lumsdonia <--- Hit link to go to my website for full story and wiring advice!

BorderShed
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Re: Smoke ! (again)

Postby BorderShed » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:47 pm

TimberSurf wrote: else you will melt the assembly (hence there is no video of version 1!)


Hi TimberSurf,
yes ok the fine vids, I especially liked #4 looks like a fine autumn day, calm sunny high pressure settled Wx when the smoke can rise straight up to good height.
It probably does that on fine summer days but we dont have fires in the house, , , oh um bonfires ? yes why not, , , , umm :) I feel another project in the offing :)

Anyway, back to matters at hand, you managed the #1 meltdown with the vapethingie still in it's housing/tank ??? eeek ! So I dont understand the need for the plastic pot, does the air supply go in to the vape housing via the bottom pipe and exit the top? I was thinking your plastic pot was a fluid reservoir to make re-filling easier ?

Hi End2end :
223154298563
seller = theclearancekinguk
but then I found even cheaper (£4.95) at
382621005280
seller = philipbrooks3014

They all have mixed reviews so they may be QualFallouts ?

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TimberSurf
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Re: Smoke ! (again)

Postby TimberSurf » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:30 pm

BorderShed wrote:you managed the #1 meltdown with the vapethingie still in it's housing/tank ??? eeek ! So I dont understand the need for the plastic pot, does the air supply go in to the vape housing via the bottom pipe and exit the top? I was thinking your plastic pot was a fluid reservoir to make re-filling easier ?

The first version was a plastic tank, but I glued the element in with "hot melt" glue. The element is designed to be used by humans puffing occasionally. If continuously switched on, it gets really hot (and I was overdriving it) so all the hot melt glued seams melted and the whole thing collapsed (on the first go before I had a chance to video it). The chamber is to form a sealed environment so the pump can pressurise it then push the smoke out.
Second and third versions were chambers with araldite seams. I thought they would use vast quantities of liquid, hence large chamber, if in continuous use and high voltage, like the factory chimney, then yes, it will use lots. For a house, the voltage/liquid/volume is very low, so easiest just to use the vape head as a whole. Solder a brass tube in one of the side air inlets (block the other) and wires to centre battery tab and the outer ring. The bottom of the ring is sealed with a plastic plate glued in.
The secret is separate control of pump and element voltages and not switching the smoke on permanently!
Image
Lumsdonia <--- Hit link to go to my website for full story and wiring advice!

BorderShed
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Re: Smoke ! (again)

Postby BorderShed » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:25 pm

TimberSurf wrote:Solder a brass tube in one of the side air inlets (block the other) and wires to centre battery tab and the outer ring. The bottom of the ring is sealed with a plastic plate glued in.
The secret is separate control of pump and element voltages and not switching the smoke on permanently!
Thanks for all the tips, good ideas.
We have different models, no holes as such on mine, just 4 tiny slots in the rim where it buts up against the battery housing. So it'll be interesting to see what the 10x are like when they arrive.

(Will have to keep it all out of sight of swmbo, until completed, I gave up the weed 40y ago and she might think I am backsliding ! :) )

BorderShed
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Re: Smoke ! (again)

Postby BorderShed » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:39 pm

Y'alls may be pleased to know that my experimental 10off atomizers arrived and 1_of_10 met it's Waterloo :)
No hacksaws needed, it was all a (tight) push fit.
I am being premature in posting this without a dramatic finalé of a smoking gun, but thought there may be some interested parties who may want to 'work along' and maybe get to the end with some interesting ideas before I do :)

On the top row : #1 is a ferrule that wiggles off, to the left, from the base of the green outer housing, it is a spacer between the battery housing (not shown) and the screw-on battery negative which engages a (internal) thread inside the end of #3
#3 is an outer, negative, tube.
#2 is the positive, hollow 'post' aka conductor which, with its shouldered white insulator, is a push fit inside #3.

#4 is a rubber(ish) insulator which slides inside #3 along with, and supporting, the coil and the coil legs.

#5 the coil and wick, badly exposed, I'll add a better close-up later. just visible are the two legs of the coil, one goes inside #4 and the other over (outside) #4 and is squeezed by #4 up against the inner wall of #3 when assembled(or to be more accurate! before it was undone :) )

#6 is a rubber(ish) end cap which fits over #3 to retain #4. it has (in this case) #4a a tiny conical metal ferrule with a center hole for the continued passage of suck through the whole gubbins. Be careful not to mislay it as it easily falls out (dont ask :) ) Some models (including my nominally similar model eCig) does not have it.

here endeth the disemboweling

Now my plan (previously a hope until I got the experimental 10 ) was that I could use the bits, not as a blow through job as TimberSurf, with its attendant flow rate / pump control problems. Rather - as an exposed coil with a fan, a bit like the mods that vapers use !

So, how to chop off most of the slot (legs) of #3 to leave the coil semi-exposed.

HELP! My hacksaw will not touch it ! do I need a dremmel type cutting disk do you think ? :(

ce4_0776.jpg
Last edited by BorderShed on Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TimberSurf
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Re: Smoke ! (again)

Postby TimberSurf » Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:51 pm

Yes you need a dremel!
Without cooling air it will get excessively hot, I refer back to Version one that went into meltdown. They are only designed to be 'on' for the short period of a 'puff', and will melt the casing if left on for more than a few minutes. There is a guy on you tube who makes them (with air blower) but he encases them in a metal box!
Image
Lumsdonia <--- Hit link to go to my website for full story and wiring advice!

BorderShed
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:16 am
Location: SW. England

Re: Smoke ! (again)

Postby BorderShed » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:18 am

Yes you need a dremel!

Thanks ! I will acquire :)

"Without cooling air it will get excessively hot,"

I will be using a different enclosure with a small computer fan, if things work out.

the coil is tiny !
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