Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Have any questions or tips and advice on how to build those bits that don't come ready made.
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Bufferstop
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Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:54 pm

As an aside to the Dapol Shunter kit-bash, I fancied dragging one of these into the 21st Century.
Image
I won this on fleabay it was described as "well used and filthy, needs an oiling. Well it's definitely well used, it was filthy, but the last thing it needs is any more oil.
Image
As you can see it's lost one set of steps completely, the bottom of another set and one of its buffers. Under the bonnet it has lost the plastic bracket with the headlight. I suspect that at some stage it has been cobbled together from spares, as although there's a stamp inside which say Hornby Railways, the wheels look to me to be earlier "Triang-Hornby" at the latest. It came at a fair price for its condition, and I'll have no qualms about carving it about.
I completely dismantled the innards, I re-assembled the pole pieces and attached them to a keeper plate. With the exception of the armature everything went into a bath of white spirit, I gave the armature a good cleaning with a cloth soaked in the stuff. The copper segments came up clean without any scoring, so once everything had had a good soak and been wiped dry I reassembled it all, with the exception of the brushes. The carbon pads had worn to the shape of the commutator, so I gave them a light filing to take them back to flat.
After a drop of oil in each bearing and a slight smear of grease on the gears I tried the motor with wires straight onto the brushes and apart from the first few seconds it ran without sparking. I knew from the word go that it would need re-wheeling to run on my code 75 track but I was quite surprised that it ran quite happily on plain track without bumping on the sleepers. The wire spring pickups are well worn, so I'll be making a new keeper plate with two sets. I've put in an order with Ultra Scale for 00 finescale replacement wheel sets, I'm just hoping they don't take the full three months that they warn you of.
Next job is to deep clean the body, my wife recommends "a good soak in Ariel, the full bio stuff as strong as you can make it, gloves essential", for all inanimate objects. I think that's where the body is heading.
John W
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K9-70
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Re: Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby K9-70 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 pm

Did you remember to replace the two Thrust Balls (part No. S5096) inside the Spherical Bearing (part No. S5104) before replacing the armature ?

http://www.hornbyguide.com/service_shee ... sheetid=28

The thrust balls help keep the armature worms central to the drive gear on the axles.
The Rides the "REASON" the "DESTINATION" is only an "EXCUSE" :-).

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Bufferstop
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Re: Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:25 pm

I encountered those little blighters when the name on the box was Triang. Apart from the coarseness of the wheels it was an extremely good mechanism for its time. Apart from the wheels and fitting a 5 Pole armature there was little that could be improved. The very first versions had knurled wheel treads which made them diabolically noisy and generated a lot of sparks under load. The thrust bearings and sintered bearing blocks were considered high tech engineering at the time. Today the Tenshodo "Spud" bogie follows exactly the same layout in a much smaller bogie, just shows.
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GeraldH
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Re: Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby GeraldH » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:27 pm

Is there a problem if the brushes are worn to the shape of the commutator - mine seems to work OK?

You may find that the coarse wheels cause you a few problems: mine now has Ultrascale drop in replacements, but they cost more than the loco!

It's a nice little loco and it can be made to run pretty well. Good luck with it :)
Gerald H - BNR Correspondent :)

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BernardTPM
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Re: Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby BernardTPM » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:35 pm

Perhaps surprisingly, this model was based on a real prototype, though below the footplate accuracy 'tails off' rapidly! Here's http://www.maciulaitis.com/nzrolling/ind_diesel/bagnall3144.jpg an export one that shows many of the characteristic features of these Bagnalls: the rounded bonnet front with top headlight and two lower side lights, the angling in of the cabsides from just below the window, the recessed flat door and even the little box in front of the cab. Additionally, some did feature the walkway across the back like the Tri-ang model. Of course, all had 'steam' type coupled wheels while Tri-ang just used their motor bogie.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:45 pm

Yes a definite family likeness. The bogie was straight from the "Transcontinental" range, unusually for the time Triang introduced it straight to market with no advance info appearing in their catalogues. The one with the handrails across the back was I think promoted as a "yard switcher"

GeraldH - I've already put my order in for Ultrascale, did you have to wait for yours, they have a comment about "can take up to 3 months" on the website?
I had one of these locos when they first came out, all knurled wheels and pointy couplings! In theory the smaller the arc of contact between the brush face and the commutator the more power the motor develops. All of the time that the brush is in contact with two segments at once the coils are creating a braking effect, you only get maximum pull towards the pole piece once the preceding coil is dead. Compared to those in a large DC motor the brushes used in model motors can span a large proportion of the contact face, so it's a compromise between area of contact aiding current flow and arc of contact prolonging the time that two coils are connected. If your motor runs hot or has a constant fizz of sparks around the brushes, file them flat with a flat needle file. Other than that as long as it's working don't bother.
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Re: Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby rejrob » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:29 pm

Hi all Being as i normally am,too late for a discussion nice to see a mention for ye jolly olde dock shunter I have one in good lick which is never used BUT i use the running gear with a drastically reduced chassis for the SR(BR) emu,s that i kit build ,I remove the excess ornamentation on the chassis casting which just leaves a chassis with the minimum of metal.This is replaced by EMU side and end ironworks The wheels are removed from their axles and the smaller knurled wheels from Triang which themselves have had most of the knurling removed replace them >By use of a Z shaped bracket attached to the top of the motor and bolted to the motor car floor these trusty motors are superb I retain a small amount of knurling as i have an incline from a lower to upper level I was fortunate enough to speak with andrew when he took charge of the old MTK kits and became No Nonsense Kits and purchased what he believed was the prototype SR double deck EMU The brass used by MTK was THICK??? when completed it weighed 31/2 lbs. and still flies round the track at about 700 MPH :lol: At the moment 6 different EMU,s are so powered If anyones down Seaford way(ZIMMER CITY) give us a call All the best and long live the dock shunter rejrob

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Re: Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby b308 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:27 pm

Yes you could do that with all that style of Triang chassis, the A1A-A1A, Co-Co and Hymek chassis could have their detail removed and other bits stuck on, something used by the MTK range of whitemetal kits as mentioned and still done by us NG modellers!

My first ever loco was the red version as part of the Snow Rescue set!

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Bufferstop
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Re: Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:09 pm

Just by coincidence Friday I got an email from Ultrascale's over complicated automated system to say that my order had moved from production to awaiting dispatch, so with any luck it might arrive this week. While I've been waiting I gave the body a thorough cleaning, reformed the broken steps and made replacements for the missing ones. Put in glazing in the cab and replaced the handrail detail with new brass wire ones. I also relieved it of the massive tensionlock couplers and fitted a pair of slimline ones. Humbrol's satin black is a good match for the self coloured plastic so the odd scuffs and scratches got smoothed out and painted over. Haven't decided about numbers and nameplates yet, but hope to have some pictures of it running once the new wheels arrive.
John W
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rejrob
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Re: Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby rejrob » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:12 pm

hi there.i have received another docky today to be used as before. Does your model have the light attachment I have a pretty good body (The docky not mine) and the light fitments Any good for yours or have you done yours All the best Rejrob

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Re: Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby CasperGriswoldBacon » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:10 pm

Very interesting thread. I'm currently doing one of these up - the older type with the old couplings and knurled wheels, picked up for 50p at a jumble sale in the 70's :wink: the electrics run fine after a clean and it manages peco track even though its going to run on original triang track. Anyway, useful tips on cleaning the electrics that i will try in future. Also on the paint colours - unfortunately too late as today i just painted a rebuilt step - still it looks okay. I was originally going to do it up "as new" but as the decals are pretty rough and i can't sourse new ones, i may change it to a different livery with different industrial decals after some research. Can't wait to see how the wheels turn out .i know they're hardly scale models by today standards but i love the idea of someone updating them and keeping them running. Keep up the good work - i may have need of your help on an old DMU motor :wink:

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Bufferstop
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Re: Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:43 am

I got my new wheels in and decided to do the job properly and change the worms as well. All went well apparently and it ran up and down the track for a few minutes, when it emmited a shriek and died. One of the sintered bronze bearings had disintegrated, and allowed the edge of the armature to catch on the pole pieces snagging and breaking the windings in a number of places. I'm currently on the lookout for a spare chassis to rob of it armature and bearings.
John W
aka Bufferstop.

{edit} Note to self - Read it twice before hitting submit.
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Re: Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby CasperGriswoldBacon » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:50 pm

Bufferstop wrote:I got my new wheels in and decided to do the job properly and change the worms as well. All went well apparently and it ran up and down the track for a few minutes, when it emmited a shriek and died. One of the sintered bronze bearings had disintegrated, and allowed the edge of the armature to catch on the pole pieces snagging and breaking the windings in a number of places. I'm currently on the lookout for a spare chassis to rob of it armature and bearings.
John W
aka Bufferstop.

{edit} Note to self - Read it twice before hitting submit.




oof! sorry to hear that. not sure if this is in the price range you're willing to pay but i came across this while looking for spares


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triang-OO-Gau ... 1c20829c46


or a whole motor


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OO-Guage-Dock ... 336dbca4e7

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Bufferstop
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Re: Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:08 pm

Thanks, I had the bogie on my watch list already, I've added the part one as well. 'Bit dubious about the seller as he appears to be taking complete assemblies apart and advertising the bits separately. I'll keep on looking, bound to land one eventually.
John W
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GeraldH
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Re: Ancient Triang Hornby Dock Shunter

Postby GeraldH » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:44 am

Bufferstop wrote:I got my new wheels in and decided to do the job properly and change the worms as well. All went well apparently and it ran up and down the track for a few minutes, when it emmited a shriek and died. One of the sintered bronze bearings had disintegrated, and allowed the edge of the armature to catch on the pole pieces snagging and breaking the windings in a number of places. I'm currently on the lookout for a spare chassis to rob of it armature and bearings.


What a disaster :( I actually kept the original Triang worms on mine. Ultrascale said they would be OK with the new worm wheel if the original worms were not damaged. They looked alright to me and I so I took a chance. So far no problems, although my locos don't travel very far. You can often pick up dock shunters at swapmeets very cheaply especially if they have the older coarser wheels, body or paint damage. East Kent Models have some obscure Triang parts and you could get the armature rewound?
Gerald H - BNR Correspondent :)

My layout: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... hp?t=28854


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