DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Have any questions or tips and advice on how to build those bits that don't come ready made.
Dad-1
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby Dad-1 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:26 pm

Ahh E2V,

I tend to think Finland is just a tad too far to arrange that ......
Now IF you still lived in Essex ....??
2 years without starting ? save it until next winter when you'll have lots of
long dark nights when it would be the ideal period to spend many hours not
just looking, but joining together !!

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Essex2Visuvesi
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby Essex2Visuvesi » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:13 pm

That was the plan this winter but its just not happened lol.

I should really get a few starter kits first but most of basic starter kits are O gauge, might try some simple OO ones first and see how I get on
Si quam primum vos operor non successio , impono

The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

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Stanier
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby Stanier » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:31 pm

I have just returned to this forum after a long break. I have built this DJH kit and I have a few comments which might be helpful. Before I start let me say that I am both a kit designer and have probably built around 100 locos from kits. This particular kit does need careful balancing to get it to run well. I used an RG4 mounted with the motor leading to get as much weight as possible forward. I also packed the tanks with sheet lead (roof flashing) and I got the loco sitting on all four drivers with the bogie missing. This is important as springing the bogie is a tricky business.

Now I notice that the DJH GB1 gearbox is being used here. Have you tested this unit off the loco? I bought a part built kit recently which came with one of these boxes. I may have been unlucky, but this is the worst gearbox for noise that I have ever heard. The gears are really quite crude - too large in pitch to give quiet running in my experience. My 439 has an RG4 in it so I can't comment on noise from mine as there isn't any. The kit for which this noisy GB1 was intended has also had this unit replaced with an RG4. It is always a pity to spoil the ship....

0-4-4 tanks are notorious for pick up problems. I fitted the bogie with pick ups as well as both sets of drivers.

I am impressed with the quality of your workmanship and attention to detail. Those little brass thingys on the front of the smokebox are the lubricators for the slide valves. I was a pupil in St Rollox works in the 50's when we were still repairing the 439's.

It is very brave to attempt the full Caley blue livery. My layout is in LMS times so plain black suits 15160 and is a lot easier to produce! There are some nice coaches to match this loco in the Caley Coaches range but I expect you know that.
I am completing my 4mm layout of Killiecrankie. I am the LMS Society carriage person.

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Stanier
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby Stanier » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:40 pm

I have just noticed something else omitted from your model (not your fault - DJH left it out) - the 439's were built by the LMS and were vacuum fitted. There is a pipe which travels from the cab to the smokebox on the LHS of the boiler passing along the top of the sidetanks. You really need a photo of the LHS of the loco to see this pipe. 1mm brass rod is what you need to make it. It may be possible to add this without damaging your paint job. BTW I find that thin paint followed by a coat of Ronseal satin varnish gives a more realistic finish than gloss paint. Mind you as almost all my locos are black and I use car aerosols I have an easier job than fancy coloured liveries.
I am completing my 4mm layout of Killiecrankie. I am the LMS Society carriage person.

Dad-1
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby Dad-1 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:08 pm

Hi Stanier,

I've not checked this kit section for a while, mainly because I've just had too many other things to do !!
I did run the motor/gearbox for about 5 hours using batteries, with the low voltage it wasn't racing, but silent at the speed it was giving, so silent I forgot it was connected which is why it ran for so long !!

The Caley lubricators have been obtained from Caley Coaches ..... and a coach, 57' semi-corridor lav/brake/comp Dg.115

I was wondering about that vacuum pipe and have been searching for pictures. I had found a few early ones that didn't seem to have it and had thought this was a later LMS fit .... always difficult as minor rebuilds & mods happen quite frequently ( when you think of how long they lasted).

I am concerned about balance, but although I've added lead in the tanks, in the forward boiler top and alongside the motor it still tail sits as opposed to standing on it's 4 driving wheels. Part of this must be because I've added a brass flywheel which sits on the rear motor shaft extension. I have it as far forward as allowed for wheel clearence. As I'm going DCC with it the decoder will be well back at the boiler rear, well I suppose firebox !!

I hope to restart this exercise next month when other things I'm doing are completed. I'm going to try and see if an aircraft modelling colleague of mine can produce me shaped white/black/white lining decals he's done several aircraft sets using an Alps printer which can print white, silver & gold ....

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Dad-1
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby Dad-1 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:41 pm

Oh dear ....... March 2011 ........
With winter weather arriving I'm going down to the kitchen right now
with this kit. I MUST get on with it I don't want to leave it to my son in my will !!!!

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Dad-1
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby Dad-1 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:37 pm

I now know why I'd stalled.
Some advice requested - how to ??
The coupling rod fittings are all too long .... by miles.

Image

I'm currently trying to disc cut back with a Dremel so the sideways play on the rod bush is
about 20 thou. The initial problem is that the threaded stud has a shoulder at the base and
when ground down the bush can't tighten down enough. I have a small drill out and will try
a gentle hand reaming to countersink slightly into the thread. In an attempt to prevent any
damage to the thread the bush will be on threaded stud so that will clean up, before
reversing and screwing on the right way around.

Image

This is very fine work and I'm having problems holding, even seeing what I'm doing, in
particular catching the thread when trying to assemble the correct way around.

Is there any easy way .... have I missed something ???
My original stall was that I didn't have a dremel and couldn't work out how to do this with
crude hand tools, rattailed/rifler files and such.

I'm amazed these parts are so long, but perhaps to manufacture shorter would cost too
much. My time is kinda free ?????????

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Essex2Visuvesi
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby Essex2Visuvesi » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:02 am

Daft question, but have you contacted DJH about the problem? It could be that they have sent the wrong part
Si quam primum vos operor non successio , impono

The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

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Dad-1
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby Dad-1 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:15 am

Hi E2V,

These fittings come with the wheel sets and not from DJH. As with the vast majority of kits
you have to source the wheels, motor & gearbox yourself. This is why kit building is so expensive,
the kit in this case was £99, but you spend as much again on those essential parts to make it !!

Anyway the dremel has done the job ..... almost to my satisfaction. Putting these small retaining
bushes onto the wheel mounted stud is difficult as now they're so small. I have to use a piece of
Bluetack to pick them up, no doubt 70 year old fingers are not the best, but I've not lost one on
the floor (yet), oh just read that and not refering to loosing my fingers.

May show a ground down side later - today blue paint for the wheels .......

Here is a ground down fitting, still a little loose, but I darent grind any more off or there will
be so little thread it'll fail too easily. May try and fix a small washer inside the coupling rod.

Image

Add to that I can't find my Ford blue rattle can .... did I use it all ????

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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mattmay05
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby mattmay05 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:25 pm

Those crank pins look like the ones i use, Delux version, all be yours is slightly different, as the lower part where you have the connection rod round is threaded and screws in to the wheel, with the top threaded part having a 1mm nut and washer where the rod goes...
All be your lower part isn't threaded never seen those before. Looks more like ones suited to bigger locos with more rods.

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Bufferstop
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:54 pm

Hi Geoff - did you buy the axlenut driver when you bought the wheelsets? It fits the Romford axle nut but also the stud that you screw into the wheel and the screw on bush part. Makes life a little easier. I agree about the depth of the bush it's obviously intended to serve for any number of rods on one pin, and rods of different thickness's. If you are using fluted rods and the pin on the centre driver has to cope with a split coupling rod and a connecting rod plus some washers in between you'll some fill it up. I've test run a chassis with the bushes left at their original length and surprisingly the rods don't shift and bind, but it doesn't look right. When I cut mine down I found a brass screw (14BA IIRC) screwed it into the bush nearly to the point at which I was going to cut it. Used the slitting disk to take off the excess then grind the face smooth. Finally drove the screw through the cut end to clean up the thread. Once finally assembled I snipped off the end of the stud then using a grinding tool smoothed it back to the level of the bush.
Hope this helps
John W
aka Bufferstop.
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Dad-1
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby Dad-1 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 2:30 pm

I wonder if this is a record on NRM ?
Posting on a thread again after nigh on 9 years of silence.

A LOT of water and all that, but I never forgot, or gave up on finishing this kit.
In the interim all the illustrations (Photos) of what was being done have gone as
various 'Free' hosting services collapsed. I would expect that the next 9 years may
see anything added now disappear, that will probably include ME !!

However I've just dug it out from a dark corner of the loft. I noticed that I did a little
a mere 5 years ago, but this time I shall (try) to battle on and finish. So as it was in 2016 :-

Image

It may not look much further forward, although much thinking time has been used working
out how far I'd got and how to go about moving it forward. The current state of play :-

Image

Image

Image

Image

The chassis and body accidently became superglued together, the glue crept where I didn't want it
so until I get some liquid de-bonding agent I can't get apart. The motor runs, but the permanent
wiring has not been added. This will be DCC and intending to have the decoder inside the bunker.

To prove the motor works within the chassis, a video :-

https://youtu.be/CPLg6ntzSU4

I'm now wondering if I should finish in early BR unlined black livery I'm frightened by the lining required
on the Caledonian blue.
Now aged 79 I MUST push on if I want to see this running in traffic ! Also doing in BR black means I have
loads of suitable freight stock, but nothing specific to the Caledonian period !!

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Bigmet
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby Bigmet » Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:04 pm

Dad-1 wrote:...The chassis and body accidentally became superglued together, the glue crept where I didn't want it so until I get some liquid de-bonding agent I can't get apart. The motor runs, but the permanent wiring has not been added. This will be DCC and intending to have the decoder inside the bunker...

Now once you have it apart, how much trouble will it be to move the motor rearwards to drive on the rear axle, so the motor is in the firebox end of the boiler? It's a much better arrangement, because it means you can pack all the resulting space forward of the rear driven axle centre solid with lead, for a much better balanced loco.

Dad-1 wrote:I wonder if this is a record on NRM ? Posting on a thread again after nigh on 9 years of silence...

I sees your near nine years, and raises you: 10 years and five months but a few days..

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Bufferstop
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:29 pm

Hi Geoff have you tried very hot water as a debonding agent. That's one of superglue's failings it breaks down with heat. Much hillarity in the staff room one day when some one had repaired their coffee mug with superglue. The top of the handle was the first bit to pull away followed by the other end and a mug full of hot coffee in his lap.
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Bigmet
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Re: DJH K8 Caledonian 439 0-4-4 Kit Build

Postby Bigmet » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:55 am

Bufferstop wrote:...Much hilarity in the staff room one day when some one had repaired their coffee mug with superglue. The top of the handle was the first bit to pull away followed by the other end and a mug full of hot coffee in his lap.

Always Araldite! (Original 24 hour curing type.)


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