Dean Sidings "Killin Pug" conversion set.

Have any questions or tips and advice on how to build those bits that don't come ready made.
Dad-1
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Re: Dean Sidings "Killin Pug" conversion set.

Post by Dad-1 »

Hi Kev,

Ahh that new Pug will be the good one. Slightly smaller wheels,
nice little loco in comparison with the other 0-4-0 range.
The trader is Hatton's who moved to Widnes and while I hate pointing
people to them to the detriment of other traders they're well worth
a look.

Geoff T.
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Bufferstop
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Re: Dean Sidings "Killin Pug" conversion set.

Post by Bufferstop »

It's notable that the former Dapol pug with its small wheels develops a decent power output from type 7 motor, with its larger wheels the same motor struggles to drive the generic 0-4-0 chassis. If it's to stand a chance the wheels do have to turn freely with no tight spots, then it's a careful choice of gear ratios to avoid extra friction. Which is a pity as the type 7 sits low in the chassis, just what's needed for a really small body.
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Dad-1
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Re: Dean Sidings "Killin Pug" conversion set.

Post by Dad-1 »

After all these years I've dug my Killin Pug conversion out, I seem to recall
some rails around the bunker top, mines no longer there. I searched the 'net'
and this build was most of what's there, HOWEVER all the photos were missing !!
Remember the problems Photobucket created - I still hate them !!
I am adding some back, those I can still identify after 13 years.

Geoff T.
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Mountain
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Re: Dean Sidings "Killin Pug" conversion set.

Post by Mountain »

Dad-1 wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:50 pm Hi Rocketman,

I have 2 concerns, one is the removal of the cast metal chassis as part of the build. It's going to leave the loco very light, there will just about be enough room in the boiler area to fit a small DCC chip, but virtually no space for lead !! At least the Killin Junction to Killin Pier was to my knowledge usually just a one coach job.

The other is getting details correct for a Caledonian Blue version as yet I've not found any pictures ....... not even one in LMS black ! If I can find nothing I'll use the Hornby Caledonian Pug as my guide using similar chimny, buffers and such

So far so good - cylinders cut off and required surgery to add the resin completed. Minor mods to coupling rods done, but I fancy making a cylindrical rod out from the piston rather than the Hornby flat blade. Time for bed and to think about this !!!

Geoff T.
Resin is a lot heavier than plastic so though some resin kits I use for 0-16.5 have added lead shot weight (Equivalent to lead), they do not actually need it in most cases.
One of my locos is actually too heavy as I added extra weight and the thing does not wheelspin even if I tried!
I found resin a lovely material to work with.
About the cylinders. Smallbrook kits often do the same where one cuts off the Hornby cylinders and adds the new resin ones. The new resin cylinders simply have a circular hope and it works fine! Not worn one out yet, and it I did one can always blue in a small metal tube instead and 're-build the thing!
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Mountain
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Re: Dean Sidings "Killin Pug" conversion set.

Post by Mountain »

In regards to motors, the only ones to avoid are In the Hornby (Ex.Dapol) smaller type Pugs. They have very cheap flat square type motors which need looking after. Never let these stall as they will be up in smoke in no time!
The other motors used in the slightly larger "Cheapie" 0-4-0's are actually hardy things which really will take a lot of abuse, and over the years from the early days of Triang, to Triang-Hornby and then Hornby they have had five different types of motorists to them, though outwardly there have been three visual types. Oddly every single one of them over the years Triang and then Hornby have laughingly described them in their catalogues as "Scalextric type motors" as the same five types of motor handball been used in their Scalextric range. (So if one sees reference to "Scalextric type" motors, one has to ask which of the five motors one is referring to!

The first of these two types look almost identical outwardly were used by Trian g on their 0-4-0's which were the X03 and the X04 type motors.

The second outward type motor which is the third actual type is a well-known framed almost cylindrical motor first used in the Then Triang-Hornby "Nellie" locos (Nellie type locos with their metal chassis started out with th X03 and then the X04, and then they made a plastic cradle to hold these newer semi-open framed cylindrical motors into the old X03/04 designed chassis. These same semi-open framed motors then became the first of the motors used in the Then new plastic chassied range of locos such as the GWR 101 etc.
Two more motor versions came after though outwardly they look absolutely identical. These newer motors were slightly shorter so the newer plastic chassis type locos (Now been in production since the latter half of the 1970's) needed a little plastic spacer to be placed on the back of the motors for them to fit in the chassis designed for the older semi -open framed motors.
These two later types that looked the same externally were said to be different inside. The later versions were slower revving and I heard it mentioned that they are five pole where I know the older versions of these are three pole. (Have opened the high revving 3 pole up, but never opened a lower revving type motor up as yet). These later locos also have lighter sprung pick-ups to improve their running and they are positively amazing!

In the last few years Hornby have come out with a new ranked super detailed 0-4-0 designs which I have not had to examine, but in regards to the older "Cheapie" budget friendly 0-4-0's in their various body styles, there are been a fair number of types running on either the early Triang metal chassis or the Hornby plastic (But actually pretty good and well proven) chassis. The wheelbase or the metal and the later plastic chassis are the exact same. The early axles are a tiny bit thicker on The metal chassis BUT if one builds ones own pick-up, one can fit modern wheels and axles to The old Triang metal chassis as the modern thinner axles are only slightly thinner so spin freely in the chassis and the play is not enough to cause any issues.
But turning to the plastic chassis, there are two basic types. The first has external cylinders and the second does not. Originally they only had the cylinder type but omitted the piston where the piston were hid under the body on some body designs, which is why the older versions of the Hornby class 06 had their chassis turned back to front used their body. (Later class 06's had cylinderless chassis which I believe came out when production moved to China).China
One version of 0-4-0 I have not yet mentioned (Apart from the Triang Rock Shunted which ran off a motor bogie chassis with an X03 style armature on a longer motor axle built onto its heavy cast metal bogie frame) is the Continental steam loco, which has a slightly different chassis built for it. Many of these had square axles and these chassis were made specifically to prevent the drive cog from moving too far left or right by the shape of the chassis. Chrome was really thin on the wheels of these as they were built to such a serious budget that the ordinary budget 0-4-0 designs looked luxurious in comparrison! Was the only 0-4-0 I could say I would avoid. I do believe later versions had round axles so would actually work ok, but the square axled type would only run if it was gently tapped, so it buying, but for the body and motor (And chassis) and scrap the wheels and their cog. The motors are the third type of the five so are good well proven motors though with a high top speed! The wheels were the same but had square holes for the axles and hardly any chrome on their wheels.
Talking about wheels. Many assume the blackened wheel types were of the latest slow running 0-4-0's, but for a fair number of years, the high speed types had blackened wheels, as th blackened wheels were first introduced when production moved to China. So shiny chrome wheels = Margate built 0-4-0's and blackened wheels = Chinese built 0-4-0's so hope that helps!
And yes, with patient adjustment to the pickups of the older Margate built locos where one gets the pick-up "Just right" one can get thinking sweetly indeed! Poor running normally relates to pick-up needing adjusting or a clean (Don't forget to clean Both the wheel treads and the backs of the wheels). Rarely do the motors give problems and are capable of MUCH higher milages than Hornby official catalogues say! (Ignore the 150 hours thing as they will do very much more than that and I have yet to see a worn out example even though most are bought second-hand and outwardly are so play worn they look as if they will never run again! But with wheel and pick-up cleaning, and bending back or replacing broken rods, even the bashed up examples spring back to life! The only issue which does not stop running but is not ideal is a broken plastic chassis. There is a weak spot but it takes a little abuse/misuse to break it, and if broken the chassis may flex but they still actually run ok as the bottom.plastic of the chassis still holds it all together (Though I have spares so usually replace plastic chassis if I come across this).
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Re: Dean Sidings "Killin Pug" conversion set.

Post by Bufferstop »

I met a guy at one of the exhibitions who worked for RS Components, he said that the figure for the life of the motor was put in the data sheets for the benefit of the manufactures of medical equipment and radiological labs who couldn't afford a motor failure so changed the motor at this figure no matter what it was working like. Can type motors are built down to this spec, but there are many parallels of things far exceeding the specified figure, (the Willis Jeep, ROD locos etc.)
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Dad-1
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Re: Dean Sidings "Killin Pug" conversion set.

Post by Dad-1 »

How did this wander into Motors & such ?
All I'm doing is adding back pictures on a 13 year old thread so it makes some sense.

Geoff T.
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Re: Dean Sidings "Killin Pug" conversion set.

Post by Phred »

Dad-1 wrote:
How did this wander into Motors & such ?
Aah, I guess we're all growing old. Wandering hands have given way to wandering attention spans. :|
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Re: Dean Sidings "Killin Pug" conversion set.

Post by TomTom »

All interesting though... I have a Killin Pug on the shelf that I motorised with a Branchlines CR Pug chassis and High Level gearbox but which never ran to my satisfaction, so the motor and gear box was usede for a Jidenco HR Dornoch tank successfully, and the plan is to fit a Dapol B4 chassis on to it. It has now been on the shelf for five years os waiting this event, but one day soon, maybe.....
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