Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

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Chops
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Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby Chops » Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:06 pm

So, there is this big patch on one of the new additions to Henley, photographed below. I'd like to drop in perhaps three stub end
tracks where to park passenger trains, with the approach being on the left hand view of the baseboard. The left facing #4 turnout would
drop nicely into the straight section just beyond the diamond crossing. As the nature of the shunting is slow, it is unlikely that derailments
would be much of a problem. The turnouts will also be in very easy reach, so if there is an issue, it is well at hand. Excuse the pun.

The question is regarding what might be available in kit form for a glass covered canopy? There is Hornby R8009, which looks rather compressed.
Is there something a bit longer, a bit bigger? You might deduce that I favor a more simplistic approach, certainly less than craftsman level. I suppose
one might join up several R8009's to make it longer. What might the station itself look like? Any suggestions as to what might be available?

Britain, more so than my own residence, has a timeless quality about it, in that a Victorian era station could appear in 1878 or could appear in 1978 with little trouble except perhaps to switch out motor vehicles for horse draw conveyances. Which I enjoy doing from time to time, thus a glass canopy, would be more attuned to this ability to change eras as opposed to modern canopies that are roofs mounted on vertical poles.

On an aside, North Americans don't model passenger termini very much at all. This page is being borrowed from what I see our British friends doing. Again, I prefer a simplistic approach; it is what I can do effectively. Scratch building an edifice would likely be more error than trial. In short, this is new territory for this Yank. Overall, the effect desired is generic, it is not sought to create a specific edifice or specific locale, other than "Great Britain." (Between Stone Henge and the castle, we are only lightly entertaining the concept of GB).

One other thing, the bare wall along the back, I've seen a number of layouts where in a low relief retaining wall is backed by different backdrops. A cityscape might enhance the overall effect. Any suggestions as to what one might find as to a British industrial/cityscape commercially available backdrop?

Lastly, would it be odd for an industrial fiddle yard to abut a passenger terminus, or are the two general kept apart from one another, in Britain? In the US, one might see the two within proximity of each other, but not intermingled.

Thank you in advance, I look forward to your suggestions.

IMG_20220609_093959.jpg
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Re: Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby End2end » Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:47 pm

This looks bigger than a single Hornby R8009 although I haven't checked both sizes.

https://peco-uk.com/products/manyways-o ... cd0e&_ss=r
PECO LINESIDE KITS OO/HO
MANYWAYS' OVERALL ROOF
A kit of pre coloured and clear parts that can be built in a number of different ways and can be stood on a platform or on ground level.
Technical Specification:
Length: Double Span: 254 Single Span: 508mm
Width: Double Span: 382 Single Span: 191mm

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Mountain
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Re: Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby Mountain » Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:14 pm

Have you looked at the lovely Triang/Hornby red brick buildings? Elaines Trains has some. Look at "00 Accessories" section on her site.
https://www.elaines-trains.co.uk/index.php?cat=28313

The signalbox and station buildings all can be improved simply by smearing grey paint into the brick gaps and they will look quite realistic.

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Re: Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby Chops » Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:11 am

Thank you so much. I had not a clue that Peco made anything of this sort, and this has a much finer, better looking appearance than the Hornby offering. Thank you, also, for reminding me about Elaine's Trains, which is one of the best places to find the unique and unusual under one roof.
Could you educate me about the Peco "covered canopy?" It might appear to me as having an almost Victorian elegance about the upright posts, or is that just wishful thinking? In any event, the Peco glass terminus is really what I would like to pursue (and will). What sort of station building that would have an early heritage be, that would abut such hall?

Even though broad liberties have been taken overall, this does not resemble a whit of Henley, would common practice for goods and passenger lines intersect at a nominally passenger station? Or are they kept distinctly away from one another?

On a side note, Bill Bryson, (one of my favorite authors, ever)* decried that so many British historic buildings and sites fall under the wrecking ball. My city, El Paso, traces it origins to 1598. The haste to demolish iconic "Wild West" structures and adobe has done nothing to improve the interest or look of the place. Some turn-of-the-century buildings remain, and offer the only charm the downtown has to offer. I suppose one might argue that Britain has paid a lot to retain some of Her history, but when I see photographs of London what with neo-Modernistic towers wedged in alongside some of her elegant, historical edifices, well, that is not my cup of tea. One supposes that not every horse shoe can be preserved, and the cost of maintaining and the space limitation of a thatched roof or timbered structure is astronomical. Yet, I like your old stuff. Always will.

*Looking for a good read? May I suggest Bryson's "Shakespeare?" A lot of Shakespeare is too high brow for my easy enjoyment, but Bryon's exposition brings the Elizabethan era to light in a supremely interesting manner.
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Re: Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby End2end » Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:37 am

Sadly Chops it's not just the cities.
We have some absolutely exquisite old towns villages that are being inundated with ugly new housing.
On my weekend wanderings around the South I see it happening EVERYWHERE.
Conurbation. :roll:

Here's some places off the top of my head that are still stunning though. If you can find them on google earth, go into street view and have a virtual walk around. :)
Tenterden
Mayfield
Arundel
Shere
Arlington / Wilmington - There's actually a chalk man carved into the hill at Wilmington called the Long Man of Wilmington and a very little known chalk horse carved into the opposite hill across the river valley. - https://sussexpast.co.uk/attraction/the ... ilmington/

There's many old houses and buildings in England that have dates painted on them. I think the oldest I found so far with a date is the 1400's.
Around 1407.
I don't think all these flimsy new houses will last that long. :lol:
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Re: Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby Chops » Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:11 pm

1407. Wow. If the walls could speak, what stories would they tell??? A good crop? A bad harvest. Men going off to war? Returning from war. Taxes and other vexations. Loves lost and won? A warm hearth on a damp night? A warm spring breeze flowing through open windows.

Not to change a most interesting subject, on the question of this terminus I have in mind, I saw this on eBay. What would it take to make it look less Continental and more British?

s-l1600.jpg


Or this?

39366.jpg
39366.jpg (63.61 KiB) Viewed 309 times


Or that?

faller-110115-ho-scale-mittelstadt-station-15740-p.jpg
faller-110115-ho-scale-mittelstadt-station-15740-p.jpg (33.67 KiB) Viewed 308 times
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Re: Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby End2end » Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:54 pm

I think ( I may be wrong) that as a UK main line terminus, the main station building is usually sited at the end of the tracks not to the side of them.
'Wings' may be connected to the main building down the sides of the stations footprint.
The over roof extending from the main building, over the concourse and continuing over the platforms / tracks but not necessarily covering the full length of the platforms.

Branch line termini, I'm not so sure.
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Re: Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby heda » Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:06 pm

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will offer better advice but looking at the first building, is there any reason why it shouldn't sit at the end of the tracks, maybe cut the end sections off if it's to wide.
Making it look more British - maybe replace the roof, I think you could probably get away with the actual building.
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Re: Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby heda » Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:30 pm

Excuse the poor artwork, done in a hurry before dinner.
I tried to get an idea how it would look with the roof replaced and with platforms running lengthways.
Dave

Image

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Re: Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby Chops » Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:58 am

Wow, this I did not expect, having the tracks running perpendicular to the building. That really has a whole other visual impact. Thank you for the input, and I am probably going with that method, as it is so unexpected.

What did you have for dinner, BTW? :)
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Re: Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby heda » Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:56 am

It was actually E2E that mentioned the building being at the end of the platforms, I just sketched it out. Glad we could be of help, it's what makes this forum such a good place to be.

To answer your question, gammon, jacket potato with cheese and peas.

Dave

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Re: Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:04 pm

Birmingham, around the turn of the 20th century gained a third city station, "Moor Street" it was built as a four track terminus to the side of the GWR main line where it entered the tunnel to Snow Hill. During the period when the GWR mainline was out of use it became the de-facto southern terminus for the south, now it has gained two extra platforms serving the former GWR through route but it's concourse and buildings remain across the end of the terminal roads, making it's layout ideal for a terminus within a loop. It doesn't have a single overall roof span but the concourse and ends of the platforms are covered by a ridge and furrow assembly of roofs each wide enough to extend out to cover an island platform. A convincing replica could be assembled from a multiple of Dapol platform canopies. They are a bit large for a single platform roof, but are wide enough to serve an island platform, Four tracks and two platforms could be spanned with the valley being aligned with the centre line of the adjacent tracks. If the supporting pillars fall awkwardly they could be dispensed with and the structure supported on the top of island platform buildings.
Operation of the terminus in steam days made use of three track traversers, which were pocketed beneath the platforms, the centre track being lined up for the next arriving service. You can still see the pockets beneath the platform ends in the terminus section. The loco would stop short, uncouple then pull onto the traverser, which would move cross as soon as the adjacent track was free. A spare track would then emerge from beneath the platform just in case the next incoming train didn't stop short. The loco could then escape and run round via the empty platform, or if the train had been taken out by a spare loco, it would shuttle off down the line to Tyseley Depot where it would be serviced, ready to take out anther train from Moor Street. I don't know when they stopped using them, late 50s DMUs would have rendered them superfluous, I remember City of Truro and a cosmetically restored Midland compound sitting on them some time around 1960. If you want a good look at them you may need to sweet talk the guardian of the gate-line as there is often a Chiltern Mainline train waiting in there between services.
A proposed extension of Moor Street to the NE side of the main line has just been published. It is proposed to accommodate NE/SW and South City local services which would enter and leave via new chords at the crossing of the Camp Hill route which already provides an avoiding route around the south of the city. It would fill up the space between the GWR main line and the new HS2 (not very) central Birmingham station. Who knows they might even manage an underground travellator to link them all together,#. Indeed there may already be a tunnel suitable for it. The sandstone on which Birmingham city centre stands is riddled with tunnels like a block of Swiss Cheese. Unfortunately I won't be providing a link to them as no one has ever told me they are no longer covered by the official secrets act, despite the press being given a tour of some in the 1967/8.
Apologies for the "brain dump" on the subject, I feel obligated to publish as much as I can, I don't want anyone to say in a few years time "John could have told us".
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Re: Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby End2end » Sat Jun 11, 2022 2:42 pm

Bufferstop wrote:A spare track would then emerge from beneath the platform just in case the next incoming train didn't stop short.

I'd love to see this in action. Do you know of any old footage of it per chance Bufferstop. It sounds really interesting. :)
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Re: Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby End2end » Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:42 pm

Chops I've just come across this group of buildings by Hornby that I haven't seen before so thought I'd share the link with you.
Looks more British than the previous 3.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265732536288 ... SwGbxipKbh
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Re: Advice/commentary sought on a large terminus

Postby Chops » Sun Jun 12, 2022 5:56 am

heda wrote:It was actually E2E that mentioned the building being at the end of the platforms, I just sketched it out. Glad we could be of help, it's what makes this forum such a good place to be.

To answer your question, gammon, jacket potato with cheese and peas.

Dave


Oh, that sounds good! :)

That Hornby Terminus- yes- that really is just the thing, and within my skill set, to boot! I really appreciate you noticing that for me; I virtually had no idea it existed, and it looks British, not Continental. Nothing bad to say about all that which is East of Doggerland, I just like what UK is doing, generally.
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