Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

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Tiddles
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Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby Tiddles » Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:53 pm

We where looking at having a go at static grass so talked to a Gaugemaster stand at a local show.

I was about to purchase a puffer bottle when my wife asked the standard question of "do you REALY need it. We can just use a normal plastic bottle :?: "

At this point the Gaugmaster employee said "yes you MUST use the Gaugemaster puffer bottle because it is made of a special plastic that give the static charge to the grass".

Now we both know BS when we hear it so walked away. At another stand we found that not only they where selling static grass for cheaper but advised that any plastic bottle would do. The trick being to have small holes in the cap and only half fill the bottle.

Has anyone made there own puffer bottle, if so how and what did you use?
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stuartp
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Re: Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby stuartp » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:17 pm

Whatever the 'special plastic' is, Morrisons must use it for ketchup bottles because they work fine. Not as good as a proper electric fly swat thingy, but fine for a bottle.
Last edited by stuartp on Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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heda
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Re: Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby heda » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:30 pm

Hi Tiddles
I have applied static grass to a small test diorama, I used the diy fly swatter/tea strainer and it did work OK. For my main layout I am considering using Static grass mat and maybe adding some patches of various shades of static grass. The only reason for this is that it seems a lot easier to simply stick down a sheet of grass, Although I will use the tea strainer method for small areas between tracks etc.

Anyway, why not try using a plastic shampoo bottle or similar on a test piece and see how it works, I wouldn't have thought the plastic is special as you can get static from a balloon.

Dave

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thebritfarmer
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Re: Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby thebritfarmer » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:16 pm

I have the Noch bottle, can't that it works all that well to be honest. Maybe I am doing something wrong as the grass doesn't stand up like it does with the machines. Gives more the effect of the grass mats.
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joshing_man
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Re: Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby joshing_man » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:43 pm

Seem to remember a thread on here some time ago on making your own and how effective it was (may even have been Pete?). Try searching and hoping we haven't deleted it at some stage.

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heda
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Re: Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby heda » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:07 am

This is one thread, there are probably more.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=37269&hilit=static+grass+applicator

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Bufferstop
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Re: Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:23 am

Static grass works on the "triboelectric" effect. Shaking the bottle causes the fibres to rub against each other causing them to repel eachother, this is what keeps them separate. The bottle will play only a minor part in generating a charge. Electronic applicators create an electrostatic field between the sieve and the damp glue which draws the fibres towards the glue so that they attempt to bridge the gap between sieve and glue. I'm on the lookout for a plastic jar that can have the sieve in its lid. Then I can take advantage of both effects. If the fibres are trying to repel each other they will pass through the sieve more readily.
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Pete
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Re: Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby Pete » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:43 pm

Hi

I've always used the puffer bottle, mine is from NOCH I think Gaugemaster just re-brand them, The trick is only to fill it a third full, not to the brim, the fibres have to be able to move against each other. I could explain the physics but I've quite simply drunk too much wine this evening, but I recommend the bottle (both the wine and the puffer) and for the few quid it costs it's hardly a big deal (certainly less than the bottle of wine I've just had which cost £17.00).

I'm sure other bottles such as talk bottles etc work as well, it's just they aren't as flexible and make your hand hurt after a bit if you have a large area to cover. The electric devices are ok, but they cost a lot and in the end don't perform any better than a plastic bottle... :|

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John Geeeee
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Re: Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby John Geeeee » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:13 pm

The bottle will be important as to how well it generates the static charge by a triboelectric effect. The effectiveness depends on where the two materials ie static grass and plastic bottle, sit in the triboelectric series. The further apart they are in the series the easier it is to generate a static charge. When two disimilar materials rub against each other there is a transfer of electrons from one to the other to generate a tribo charge.The static grass puffer bottles are probably only polyethylene/polypropylene based and the static grass itself is probably nylon based fibres which are quite far away from each other in the series. So in theory any polyethylene/polypropylene bottle should work but something like a PET based (fizzy pop bottle) bottle will not be as effective. See the series below, its not a complete list as there are more polymer/plastic materials that are missing but its a good guide. So when the fibres take on a positive charge the try to repel each other and hence they stand up.
Thats a simple explanation of the physics behind it :D

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Pete
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Re: Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby Pete » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:05 pm

So there we are, confirmed, NOCH/Gaugemaster bottle is cool, other bottles suck...

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b308
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Re: Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby b308 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:13 am

But also that any other bottle that can be "puffed" will also do and will be cheaper... If not free... Well done Pete to get one to work, I couldn't get mine to, though it did take a while to get the hang of the tea strainer as well so I should give it another try bearing in mind people's comments above!

allan downes
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Re: Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby allan downes » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:36 pm

What I used to do after trying to part grass fibres with little or no success, was to tip the whole bag onto a bed of PVA then tease it out with a large darning needle and spraying it all with matt varnish and whilst it was still wet, tease it out further and keep doing this until I got satisfactory cover and the 'grass' to stand up.I'll go and see if I can find a picture...

Allan

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Re: Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby Pete » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:52 pm

Hi

It took some mastering, but I found (and apologies for repeating this like a mantra) that you need to fill the bottle about a third full, make sure the fibres are very 'loose' and puff away changing angle and distance as you do so, also make sure the PVA is nice and clean and 'fluid' it's best to do it on a warm day, I had a little go last night on my OO project:

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As a product it has to be one of the coolest available 8)

I still don't see the issue with spending a few quid on a bottle, mine has lasted years and against what I spend on other stuff it's negligible, the sense of warmth and well being from not spending is over rated...

Pete
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lezjez
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Re: Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby lezjez » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:29 pm

I recently made a fly swatter grass applicator, using a metal sieve. The results were ok but not great, and I thought the sieve was probably too big. I had a small tea strainer which I wanted to try to see if the small size made a difference but after some research I realised the mesh was too small. I wanted to make it so I could change the mesh size for different grass length. I came up with the idea of using a small plastic pot with the mesh in the lid, so I could have different lids with different mesh. I then glued the pot on the end of the fly swat so it operate vertically like the more pro models. It seems to work quite well and the plastic pot helps to generate some static. I'll put a coupe of pics up when I get a chance. It wasnt much more difficult to make than the original, just using bits I had lying around.
Liam

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Re: Guagemaster Puffer Bottle. BS or not.

Postby lezjez » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:39 pm

pictures of the home made statis grass applicator. its a bit of a hybrid between the tea strainer type and the 'pro' models.
It seems to work reasonably well.
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The Sieve.
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This is War World Scenics 6mm summer grass mix, and it has done a reasonable job. it helps to run a vacuum over the grass after about 5-10 mins which straightens up a few more fibres.
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