While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

What are you up to on your workbench
Richard08
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:39 pm
Contact:

While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Richard08 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:18 pm

With a pause for Postman Pat on the track repairs front, I've got on with the BR 20t brake van. Still no idea what the bits above the top sole bars are for... (except the chimney). Going to have revert to crossing out words in the instructions and see what's left I guess. I've not gone for the 'compensation' option, the rod provided is that rigid it's difficult to bend with pliers let alone any movement in an axle box - I made one up but it just didn't seem to do anything.
DSC01329.resized.JPG


The ICI hopper has had it's top coat and awaits detail painting, handbrake, vac pipes etc and then transfers. It seems the wheels were indeed painted, not just for 'publicity shots' so I've gone along with that, but it does grate a bit for some reason.
DSC01331.resized.JPG


And the MVC has it's pre-weathering paint job. Funny how it's currently managing to look exactly like a plastic model...
DSC01332.resized.JPG

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 13619
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:28 pm

It looks like a model with a matt finish, which, is what they aim for in the plastic finish. Get some weathering on and put it in a railway like setting it will look a lot better. All finishes have problems, matt as you've discovered can seem plastic, gloss or satin can spoil the illusion of the scale as they reflect the full size world, not the scale size one it should be found in.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

Richard08
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:39 pm
Contact:

Re: While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Richard08 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:55 pm

Bufferstop wrote:It looks like a model with a matt finish, which, is what they aim for in the plastic finish. Get some weathering on and put it in a railway like setting it will look a lot better. All finishes have problems, matt as you've discovered can seem plastic, gloss or satin can spoil the illusion of the scale as they reflect the full size world, not the scale size one it should be found in.


I think the finish, Railmatch ('slightly gloss'), matches ex-works wagons pretty well. I'm sorely tempted to make the wagon look like this https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralclaspvb - the tenth photo down on my screen.. I think it's the actual colour that gives the 'platstic' look somehow. The grey on the MCO didn't have that effect (also Railmatch). Definitely agree that not everything 'scales', colour and speed for two.

Richard08
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:39 pm
Contact:

Re: While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Richard08 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:38 pm

And it's done - bar transfers (TOPS panel and electro-flashes). One of the reasons I post is because I take photos anyway of what I've made so I can spot the mistakes. So often I've thought "Yep, got it" and the immediately spot something in a photo. Slipped rivet strip, dammit. Ah well, too late now.
DSC01333.resized.JPG

Bigmet
Posts: 9266
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Bigmet » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:26 pm

Richard08 wrote:...I've not gone for the 'compensation' option, the rod provided is that rigid it's difficult to bend with pliers let alone any movement in an axle box...

The compemsation rod should act as a pivotted beam, so that as one axlebox moves the other should go in the opposite direction, such that all wheels remain in contact with the rails through any humps or dips in the rail top. (On the prototype the beam typically acts on the suspension of each wheelset, effectively increasing vertical travel for the purpose of staying on the rails in low speed movement on rough track.)

Richard08
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:39 pm
Contact:

Re: While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Richard08 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:33 pm

Bigmet wrote:
Richard08 wrote:...I've not gone for the 'compensation' option, the rod provided is that rigid it's difficult to bend with pliers let alone any movement in an axle box...

The compemsation rod should act as a pivotted beam, so that as one axlebox moves the other should go in the opposite direction, such that all wheels remain in contact with the rails through any humps or dips in the rail top. (On the prototype the beam typically acts on the suspension of each wheelset, effectively increasing vertical travel for the purpose of staying on the rails in low speed movement on rough track.)


Sadly it just didn't do anything much. I've got more movement having one fixed and one floating axle box on each axle. Such arrangement might not be sprung, but does allow the wheels to remain in contact with the track with gravity assist. It runs fine, which is I guess the ultimate aim.

Richard08
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:39 pm
Contact:

Re: While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Richard08 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:44 pm

It turns out that brake blocks decide the method of fixing - being a brake van there are double shoes, which curve around the wheels such that if they fit snugly 'against' the wheels there is no room for vertical movement. The aesthetics win for me, so all axle boxes are now fixed (having made very sure the chassis is square).

Bigmet
Posts: 9266
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Bigmet » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:54 am

That's why a pair of rocking W irons were so popular in 4mm for P4, you could have compensation on one wheelset of a wagon, and the brake shoes and any other tackle attqached to them moved with the wheelset. The small gap to allow the movement, between the bottom of the fixed spring buckle and the top of the axlebox it should be bearing on, was invisible once everything was painted mucky black.

Richard08
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:39 pm
Contact:

Re: While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Richard08 » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:32 pm

So after much prodding, poking, trialing and so on the BR van is now on it's wheels. Having a handrail bending jig was a distinct advantage here. Now they are all on, bar the 'platform' ones, I can remove the unused 'mounting points' provided for alternative handrail arrangements, LNER early BR etc. After much cogitation and photo staring I've used 0.5mm brass rod for the handrails rather than the more 'traditional' 0.7mm, mostly because when putting some in Guard Kleweless' hands so to speak it seems a more appropriate size - and, to me, looks 'better'. Next.. the running boards. Too late for this model, it turns out that David Parkin is selling ABS replacement axle boxes designed for roller bearings. Next time.
DSC01375.resized.JPG

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 13619
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:16 pm

The "safety rails" across the end openings were definitely different to the handrails on the brake vans I remember from the 1950s. My mother's uncle was a goods guard who'd started his career just before the grouping with the Midland Railway, served with the LMS for the whole of its existence, including through WW2, and retired from BR in the mid fifties. He always seemed to be waiting to enter the yards at Bescot about 4:30 in the afternoon no matter where he'd been or what his train was carrying. That rail across the opening wasn't a rail in my book it was a solid rod with a hook on one end and the other end looped through a ring, just like the sort of stay you would use to keep a gate open. He always insisted I opened it before descending from his van. I would imagine that whatever the drawings showed if that's what they had previously used that's what the new vans got! There are always a few differences between what the engineering drawing shows and what actually gets built.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

Richard08
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:39 pm
Contact:

Re: While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Richard08 » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:48 pm

Bufferstop wrote:The "safety rails" across the end openings were definitely different to the handrails on the brake vans I remember from the 1950s. My mother's uncle was a goods guard who'd started his career just before the grouping with the Midland Railway, served with the LMS for the whole of its existence, including through WW2, and retired from BR in the mid fifties. He always seemed to be waiting to enter the yards at Bescot about 4:30 in the afternoon no matter where he'd been or what his train was carrying. That rail across the opening wasn't a rail in my book it was a solid rod with a hook on one end and the other end looped through a ring, just like the sort of stay you would use to keep a gate open. He always insisted I opened it before descending from his van. I would imagine that whatever the drawings showed if that's what they had previously used that's what the new vans got! There are always a few differences between what the engineering drawing shows and what actually gets built.


My observations on handrail size are based on experience as a guard, I was just trying to avoid going there (I've been on RMWeb ;-) ). The 'gate', at least on a BR standard van, was indeed a bit of handrail with an elongated 'D' at the hinge end and a 90' hook at the other. The 'D' allowed the gate to drop down into the bottom loop to stop it flapping about when 'open', lifting it allowed it to be rotated and the hook to locate in a slot/hole in veranda end. The hook was of sufficient length that it couldn't (for all values of 'couldn't') jump out and a pretty substantial mounting as it would be leaned on when going along to watch the train (by my time the ducket 'glass', indeed most of the glass, was all perspex in largely opaque).

Richard08
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:39 pm
Contact:

Re: While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Richard08 » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:58 pm

Actually, scratch the hook, I think that was ex GWR Toads. The BR one just relied on the slot when 'closed'.

Bigmet
Posts: 9266
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Bigmet » Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:28 pm

Richard08 wrote:...My observations ... are based on experience as a guard...

One slow speed ride in a goods brake van on a preservation line had me wondering how on earth the railway persuaded rational chaps to ride about in them to earn a living. How easily could older bogie coaches have been repurposed into brake vans - with some useful 'smalls' capacity to boot - instead of building new vehicles to such flawed designs...

Richard08
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:39 pm
Contact:

Re: While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Richard08 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:46 pm

Bigmet wrote:
Richard08 wrote:...My observations ... are based on experience as a guard...

One slow speed ride in a goods brake van on a preservation line had me wondering how on earth the railway persuaded rational chaps to ride about in them to earn a living. How easily could older bogie coaches have been repurposed into brake vans - with some useful 'smalls' capacity to boot - instead of building new vehicles to such flawed designs...


Yes, words like 'comfortable', 'quiet' and 'smooth' are not usually associated with them. Especially on a 60mph Speedlink service. They were warm though, with the proviso that you could only do one side at a time on icy nights. That said, I suspect a design requirement was to keep the guard from dossing (having a kip). Spoilsports.

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 13619
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: While Waiting For The P-Way To Get Their Fingers Out...

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:34 pm

I suspect that the combination of ballast weight and neglected springs did little to improve the ride!
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions


Return to “The Workbench”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests