Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

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End2end
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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams Radial O2 0-4-4T

Postby End2end » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:12 pm

whynot wrote:^^ Sounds about right to this average novice!

When someone said accuracy??? I thought, isn't that another name for visit to the doctor? Like NOVICE is another name for Jesus?? :lol:
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adrianbs
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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

Postby adrianbs » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:39 am

Hi All, I wonder just what the purpose of this forum, and indeed all others, is actually for. Since most contributors on this topic seem to think that any form of critical assessment which highlights even major errors is totally unacceptable it would seem rather pointless having any discussion at all. I can understand Mattmay's attitude as he is no doubt embarrassed by his own lack of knowledge which has lead to him promoting the virtues of various models without realising that there were numerous inherent errors. (The Kernow O2 with a chimney 15% too large, suitable for S scale being just one of many he missed )
I have NEVER expected perfect accuracy from either RTR models or even my kits but in 2016 I see no reason why a large well financed mass production company like OR, with all the latest toolroom technology available, is quite incapable of researching and tooling a model to the standards achieved by many kitchen table one man bands over 40 years ago. The facilities available to me at that time comprised simple hand tools with a total value of only a few pounds and the determination to get as near as I could to an accurate model.
I have no wish to be "snapped up" by a major company at 72 but I do contribute suggestions to some which in certain instances are not ignored but in others my comments fall on deaf ears. I was a novice modeller once, if my memory of the dim and distant past is correct, but I did not wish to remain a novice for ever, especially when I had seen what could be achieved. I LISTENED to my peers and READ books and articles in an attempt to emulate their achievements.
People will indeed buy anything from near perfection to near rubbish simply because they have not been told how good or bad a model is and have not taken the trouble to check. The OR Radial 30583 has a lot more wrong with it than just the incorrect dome with it's superfluous fixing bolts which HAS been corrected on one of the versions to be issued. OR claimed they had analysed the prototypes and discovered 97 different details that varied but unfortunately they seem to have forgotten to tell the toolroom which are the correct combinations to produce each individual model. One of the future versions as shown at the toy fair exhibits the classic boo-boo of having a Drummond dome and an Adams safety valve on the same loco. 30583 has the wrong cabsides, cab front, cab rear, tank front top and faulty buffer beam design amongst other errors but not one of these points has been mentioned in the magazine reviews, not even the wrong dome with it's fixing bolts.
I am afraid the initial confusion as to what loco this topic was actually concerned with does rather illustrate the fact that some modellers have a long way to go before they can claim to be experts so why do they wish to silence anyone who might enable them to actually learn something. The phrases "Ignorance is bliss" " A little learning ia a dangerous thing" and "Knowledge is power" come to mind.

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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

Postby flying scotsman123 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:07 pm

I think the more pertinent question would be what is the purpose of you being on this forum Adrian? Currently you serve none, as no one is interested. The purpose of this forum is as a place for modellers to share their modelling efforts with other like-minded people, inviting constructive criticism in a more gentle environment than perhaps some other places. There really isn't that much discussion over new products, it's more based on asking questions and receiving answers, and sharing ideas.

The purpose of this forum is not another place that you can use after being banned from others as a mouthpiece to grind an axe against manufacturers just because they didn't reply to an email you sent about a rivet being in the wrong place. I don't care if you think it was more important that "rivet counting".To the masses here, and especially with your attitude, that's all you are.

The purpose of this forum is to ask questions and answer those posed, and share modelling with other like-minded folk - so how about a bit of that eh?
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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

Postby Emettman » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:16 pm

adrianbs wrote: One of the future versions as shown at the toy fair exhibits the classic boo-boo of having a Drummond dome and an Adams safety valve on the same loco. 30583 has the wrong cabsides, cab front, cab rear, tank front top and faulty buffer beam design amongst other errors but not one of these points has been mentioned in the magazine reviews, not even the wrong dome with it's fixing bolts.


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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

Postby Lysander » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:31 pm

So perhaps it's about time for someone to step forward and say 'I don't care'. I really don't. I honestly couldn't give a toss if the fixing bolts are incorrect or there's a mix up between buffer beams and safety valves. I'm just perfectly - perfectly - happy if the duck looks like a duck and quacks at the same time. Life's too short, particularly in 4mm.

That is not to say that I ignore critical review - far from it. I may even introduce corrected detail as a result. But I - and I know thousands of others - really don't care if 100% prototypical accuracy is not present. Frankly, I probably wouldn't draw the line if it fell to 75% either.

I respect expertise where it exists but just accept Adrian that not all of us can be bothered to get too wound up over any of this. For me, the real gains are locos which run quietly, have wheels which do not resemble pizza cutters and no longer have moulded handrails [etc., etc.]. I can live with other imperfections...

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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

Postby Dad-1 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:44 pm

On that very sane & reasonable reply I think I'll allow this to
cool rather.
Adding I must be a moron as I like my Dapol & Hornby 14 XX's
and a more accurate model that cost more wouldn't fill my requirements.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Dad-1
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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

Postby Dad-1 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:56 pm

This thread has been unlocked.
Under NO circumstances respond in any way to comments posted by adrianbs.
I have decided not to delete history as it's usually the basis for the future
The thread is opened for average modeller information exchange.

Geoff T - Mod
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Richard Lee
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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

Postby Richard Lee » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:05 am

Regarding my O2 - I can't say what is, or is not accurate I am afraid; I have rely on others for that, and so try to be supportive of those more knowledgeable than myself.

Firstly, the model looks nice in that it is attractive and detailed. I have a Maunsell green Southern Railway one numbered '207'. This, I believe, fits in with the date of my fictional layout, which is 1933. (About 1930 the SR started dropping the initial 'E', 'B' and 'A' to indicate whether they were former LSWR, LB&SCR or SECR, and adding 2000 to the numbers of the former LB&SCR and 1000 to the numbers of the former SECR locos.)

It was packaged well, certainly well enough for it to cope with the combination of Royal Mail and Bulgaria Post.

Let me stress that it runs well now, and that I am currently very happy with it. However, when I first ran it, it almost went straight back to Cornwall. It would derail on my 30" radius scenic curve. Fortunately, on another forum, the reason for some of the O2's misbehaviour had been high-lighted. Some of the O2s had the back-to-backs of the driving wheels set a little too wide. The suggested cure was to put a OO back-to-back gauge between the wheels and squeeze the wheels into it with your fingers. Luckily, I had a DCC Concepts back-to-back gauge and was able to do it. It worked like a charm. Instant and massive improvement!

Running-in seemed to help quite a bit, as well. I recommend that you do so.

Another thing that I should mention (although it was the fault of the layout and my clumsy ballasting rather than the model) was that the O2 would sometimes take exception to tiny grains of ballast stuck on the insides of rails that other stock had ignored. Easily sorted by identifying the places and scrapping the specks of ballast off. If you are as ham-fisted as myself, you may want to be aware that you might want to check for ballasting malfunctions.

Have to put my hand up to my track-laying not being perfect. However, the O2 now goes through all the points in both directions, straight or curved path with no problems. There is one set of points that my Hornby M7s don't like going through the curved path in the toe-to-heel direction. No problem with the O2, which means that it tends to get lumbered with the goods train when running the layout in Western Division mode.

The O2 has a coreless motor. The advice given both in the instruction leaflet and by Dave Jones on a certain other forum is not to use either DC feedback controllers or 'electronic track cleaners' such as the Relco ones, or the Gaugemaster HF1 or HF2 with it. I use the Gaugemaster HF1 on my layout. It has inputs for the controller output, and for the 16 volt AC accessory to power the clever electronics. All I did was to put an on-off switch in one of the 16 volt AC leads so that I can turn the 'electronic track cleaner' off when I run the O2.

You need to hear from a DCC user about the DCC capabilities rather than myself. However, the smokebox door comes off easily; I think that the DCC socket might be there.

The cab can be taken off (the instruction leaflet tells you how) to let you stick crew in. The 'coal load' comes off the bunker easily, which can make sticking bits of real coal in more interesting than usual, although not impossible. What you can't do without damaging factory-fitted detail is to remove the body. So far, I haven't had to try to add weight, but please be aware that I run short trains. If your ambition is to add battery powered radio control then that might well be an issue.

My O2 seems to pick up from the driving wheels only on one side. Because I use live frog points, I only found that out when I cleaned the wheels. Don't know whether that is a one-off fault, or whether it is more common. Doesn't bother me, though.

Some experienced and clever modellers on some other forums have formed the opinion that the O2 uses the 'split-chassis' mode of construction.

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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:03 am

Sorry for taking a bit of a back seat in the recent shenanigans. In terms of moderation I'm in the minor league, others have been doing it longer, we take the permanent banning of a member very seriously and confer on any such decision.
My personal view on accuracy is that it is costly in resources and can be wasted if the end product is intended to be seen in motion and from sensible viewing distances. So I don't aspire to museum standards of accuracy, my modelling is done as the paint and canvas artists would say "with a broad brush." Let's all continue with some light hearted and satisfying modelling.
Oh and on behalf of you all a big thank you to Geoff for shouldering the responsibility of dealing with "our problem"
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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

Postby Dad-1 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:24 pm

Thanks Richard,

A nice wee run-down on it.
Let me say ballast can be a right pain and you must check the insides of rails for the odd
grain stuck where you don't want it. Points need even more care !!

The perpetual Back to back variations are another hazard that's not always easy to deal with.
I would like to close up my Tenshodo spuds under 2 white metal locos, but can't move by hand
and dare not hit with a toffee hammer or the model would be damaged. Pleased it made such
a difference.

John, It's been a difficult week, but I have to look at the end game which is the most important
factor in some awkward decisions.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

Postby Lancastrian » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:35 pm

I model because I enjoy it, accuracy, what is that. In my younger days we used to the expression BSA (as in motor bike s)Bits Stuck Anywhere, this describes my layouts, if I like it it's fine by me.

Before I get rounded on about BSA's I did during my biking days own a couple along with a Norton. :D
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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

Postby luckymucklebackit » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:42 pm

All this carry on over a couple of minor locos from a minor post grouping railway company, :wink: just be thankful that you have models from this neck of the woods to bicker over, now if they had made a hash of a J36.............


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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

Postby Richard Lee » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:01 pm

Sorry, I forgot to mention that the O2 was a bit noisy out of the box. The instructions tell you to run it in, then lubricate. (There aren't a huge number of places to lubricate, so not a big job.) I used Peco Powerlube applied with the kind of needle that you use to sew buttons back on shirts. Once the running-in and lubrication was done, it wasn't noisy.

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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

Postby Jim S-W » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:11 pm

As always each to thier own but let's not forget that goes both ways too. One of the reasons I left the other place was the constant attacks on people who weren't happy with stuff from the box and wanted to do better. The term rivet counter became a sort of anti elitist bullying in some apparent attempt to preserve the mediocrity over there.

No one is compelled to read a post and even less so any compulsion to reply. I appreciate that this forum targets itself at beginners but having read this topic I somehow feel less welcome than I did before.

Cheers

Jim

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Re: Kernow / Dapol Adams O2 0-4-4T

Postby 6C » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:22 pm

Jim - please don't feel unwelcome...I for one value your opinions and knowledge

There are other forums, mentioning no names, that are:
nitpicking, rivet counting, armchair experts, obsessed with scale, manufacturer-specific, BUT they all have their worth.

I don't think I would be happy if this forum became one of the above, simply by the efforts of one member, wanting to change the focus/equilibrium of the forum.

This is the best general forum of them all, with the right level of humour coupled with technical information...bar none.
Pete

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