Thinking aloud.

Post your design ideas for any layout that you are planning to build in the future. Keep members up-to-date with your designs and future plans for your layout.
Ferris
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby Ferris » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:52 pm

I had a visit there last week, it's a lot bigger than I had expected and more dangerous to the wallet :P

Brian2
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby Brian2 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:59 am

Indeed, I visited this shop about 10 years ago when it first opened, in one small room.....but now, about five rooms filled to the gunnels. Just proves RM must be very much alive in this area,

However I have now decided on the new layout. Found this plan on the web, originally from the " Railway Modeller".
Imageuntitled (1 of 1)-Edit by Brian Tompkins, on Flickr

Looks pretty straight forward. Only trouble is I initially planned on going radio control but I am told with the tiny engines it's a case of the locos trailing a battery around in a permanent coupled wagon/coach etc. Oh well, back to the dreaded wiring, So here's where I need a little help.

I am of an age where scrabbling around under baseboard is not an option. So the intention is to work downward, the baseboard will be ply covered with fibre board so wiring could be surface mounted i.e. under the fibre board. The live frog points could be pre wired and dropped in from the top, I think. It's my intention to run a bus bar around the perimeter but no idea where the feeds should be placed.....

Any comments would be very welcome,

Brian

Brian2
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby Brian2 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:04 am

Oh quite forgot to mention iI have decided to go 009 gauge, this plan was for 0-16.5. But I am sticking to the 5'x 9' dimensions plus a fiddle yard on the right hand side.So I should have plenty of space to play with the scenic side.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby Bufferstop » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:47 pm

Brian - are you intending to go DCC, with 009 you'll need your bus wires and polarity switches for the frogs. A short circuit can potentially draw almost the full output of a DCC power supply through the point blades without polarity switches. The effect on the thin end of the point blade is to be avoided, it can get hot enough to melt the adjacent sleepers within a few seconds.
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Brian2
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby Brian2 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:35 pm

No, I cannot see any advantage in DCC, at least for me.

In the back of my head I am still fretting about radio control. Yes I realise that it might entail each loco being "tied" to a " battery" wagon/coach but that I could live with, I don't tend to play trains, my interest is mainly construction rather then operation.

But if I did decide to go the standard dc route I might even go for manual points with frog juicers. Although of course if I went the RC way with manual points I could power the whole layout with just two wires attached to a charging siding.

But of course if I wired it conventionally I could alway go over to rc, by merely switching the power off.

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Mountain
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby Mountain » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:37 pm

The great thing for 009 is thee is a lot available in ready made form. It is well worth remembering that you can freely mix 009 with H0e to provide an even larger choice of models. I used to model in 009 but about a decade ago I had to buy H0e instead as it was before ready made 009 stock became availble. H0e is just the continental form of 009 and you can get some amazing items.
The only thing which put me off (Apart from locos and a few coaches were not cheap) was that I found it a bit small and intricate. Other then that, it is ideal. Both 009 and H0e use the same couplings and the same gauge width so it is an ideal choice.

Brian2
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby Brian2 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:25 pm

A good point re the HOe, I'm not a purist in railway terms,mas long as it looks good.

You say you found 009 a bit small, apart from the track was there anything else ? Bearing in mind, I'm a " ready to run" sort of guy.

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PinkNosedPenguin
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby PinkNosedPenguin » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:07 pm

Brian, if you intend on going narrow gauge then I suggest you join the NGRM-online site - I post on both this site and that one.

Re RC: At least one modeler over there has successfully built a 009 layout with RC in his locos - see http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/21109-rc-009-thoughts/

In fact he has also done it in 006.5! http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/21615-0065-rcand-topics-related

You'll need to register on that site to use the above links, but as I say you may find that very useful anyway . . .

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Mountain
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby Mountain » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:12 pm

While on that site take a look at both 009 and 0-16.5 railways. It will give you an idea of size etc. There are many modellers who have shown their layouts and their creations.
I have to say that if I was still using 009/H0e I doubt I would have tried to kit and scratchbuild. 0-16.5 is made for it and I found it much easier then I expected. It is time consuming but everything made becomes more personal, unique and special.
I used to have three little H0e locos. A German 0-6-0 with a little tender which cost the same as a Bachmann sound equipped class 37 when they first came out, a Swiss? 0-6-2T and a little 0-6-0 diesel. I bought three beautiful bogie coaches for over £30 each when Bachmann Mk1's were £18 each. (H0e is not cheap but it is intricately made). The H0e coaches had working sliding doors for the guards compartment.
Moving back to 0-16.5, I found this larger scale to offer modelling on a low budget potential. It's a case of horses for courses. The smaller scale of 009/H0e offers lovely scenic potential while the larger 0-16.5/0e/0n30 scale offers a "Presence". The couplings I use are to my own design, though the principle is nothing new. Apart from they cost pennies, I can hear the buffers clash together if I rough shunt them. Yes, it is not a loud noise but to hear it gives the illusion of something solid.

I like the plan you have chosen. Ideal for 009. I was looking at thw Deltang radio control system which seemed to tick the boxes, but I decided to go for plain and simple 12vDC instead.

Brian2
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby Brian2 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:24 pm

Baseboard material all cut and awaiting delivery from B&Q , £30 delivery :( Oh well transporting lumps of timber and two seater sports cars don't go together.

I have decided to go with the track plan I showed earlier, apart from reducing the baseboard width by around 30%, Should be alright the plan is actually narrow O gauge. Incidentally the plan doesn't show it but there is a 6' extension/ fiddle yard at right angles to the right hand side.

Taken Mountains advice and joined the narrow gauge forum. A mine of advice.

Yes Mountain I have a small collection of Continental stuff and agree re the quality, this Fleishman is superb, but my Roco Glasshause is my all time favourite. And those Roco coaches are to die for......sorry I used to teach drama :).

Not quite decided re the scale, getting the baseboard physically in place will help. Only sure decision is that there will be no electrical wiring on the track, apart from a charging siding.


ImageL1040292Small by Brian Tompkins, on Flickr

Brian2
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby Brian2 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:27 pm

Awaiting the delivery from B&Q spending the time daydreaming about what gauge. So it's a toss up between 009 and 0-16.5.

Either way I would only want a small loco with perhaps one coach and a brake together with one or two quirky industrial locos with 3/4 wagons. Here's a sketch roughly to scale.

Imageuntitled (1 of 1)-11 by Brian Tompkins, on Flickr

But still I cannot get that 0 gauge Terrier sitting so alone in my local model shop.

But are thoughts of 0 gauge in the available space stupid. It's the radii of the curves which I think might be the problem,
?

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Mountain
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby Mountain » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:27 pm

The largest concern with 0 gauge (Referring to it in a standard gauge form), is that it takes rather large radius curves. No doubt these can be manipulated. Narrow gauge does have the advantage of negotiating much sharper curves. One of the reasons why some prototype narrow gauge railways were built in the first place. I think that building a railway having its own restrictive criteria adds chatacter. I converted a 00 gauge Peco loco lift to handle 0-16.5 stock and this gives me my own railways individual loading gauge restrictions along with the sharp curves which turn 180 degrees on a 2ft wide board (About 60cm). It is lovely to make models to fit individual criteria.

If one is using 009, then one can have a more relaxed approach using RTR equipment and you have space to run most narrow gauge locos. Yes, there may be restrictions but they will be the exception.
It is well worth studying various scales and sizes used before one takes the plunge.

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TimberSurf
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby TimberSurf » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:49 pm

I was intrigued to see what you could fit! {read¬ I wanted to play}. I have only ever designed layouts in OO. My oddity is that don't use track design software, as I can do it in CAD, as it's way quicker for me (20+years). So here is a quick bash at the sizes you gave in green, the main corner would need a chamfered infill, but is just 48in radius, whereas 72in is recommended, but if you run 0-6-0 it would work/not look stupid. The problem is that the straights that are left are extremely short!
I have assumed you use a tiny turntable (home grown) and the short plank on the left is a TMD. I know nothing about O gauge and only offer the diagram as a conversation starter for those that know way more than me!
Personally, I think it's a non starter, OO gauge track would definitely fit and could be used as standard or narrow gauge 8)
Brian2 NRM V1.0.jpg
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b308
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby b308 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:42 am

Mountain wrote:It is well worth studying various scales and sizes used before one takes the plunge.


True, but with one very large "BUT"! Unless you are modelling American O scale (Bachmann On30) there is only OO9/HOe which has a multitude of RTR and bear in mind that Brian said in his first post that he was more interested in building the layout than operating so probably doesn't want to end up scratchbuilding or making up kits which he'd have to do in all the other O scale or below scales.

Brian if you hunt around on NGRM you'll find that there are several people who use RC in OO9 and I suspect they've probably done most of the RTR locos by now so should be able to help you. Just set up a new thread asking for advice and they'll come running! My only issues with it is the same as DCC, cost and having to fiddle with the locos to fit the stuff, I find DC works very well and on a simple layout you don't really nead anything else... I'm Hobby over there, BTW, modelling in HOe/m and OO9 for about 40+ years now!

One thing, though, don't buy the Heljan Manning Wardle whatever you do, it's a disaster of a model, stick to Bachmann (US and UK) and Minitrains and you won't go far wrong.

Brian2
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Re: Thinking aloud.

Postby Brian2 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:06 am

Thanks both for your help. Timbersurf really did produce a most imaginative idea but as B38 brought up, my interest is scenic rather then operating trains.

Imageuntitled (1 of 1)-12 by Brian Tompkins, on Flickr

This is one from an earlier layout.

The sensible thing would be another 00 based on my earlier sketch. Trouble with that Peco are stopping that one. I really the new bull head rail, but they only make large radii points.....for a small branch lined dockside I don't think so.

There again I could go Continental, the stock I have is superb, but the South German architecture is just so Julie Andrews.

So let's have a look at opening a new thread on NGR as per B38 's suggestion.As an aside when I signed up for that forum had to prove I wasn't a robot. Hence question, "What do the letters WHR" stand for? Now I ain't a robot but I had to Google that one. :)


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