Kavster's Loft Layout

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Kavster
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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby Kavster » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:34 pm

Yeah, that's kind of my mindset along with the limitations of the space!

And thank you! I didn't think they'd come out as well as they have. Few little problems here and there, but I spent a lot of time with a pencil, paper and eraser! Haha :lol: So, definatley glad I planned them thoroughly!
My thoughts were about starting a gradient just outside the station and working up to a height by the time it reaches the docks. But I need to measure the gradients, and whether the locos will clear the beam.
In terms of dropping a section of a baseboard, I've made them all modular, so I think there's a possibilty of doing that in the future. I was thinking about just dropping one of the modules lower than the rest which would give me a 4ft dropped section, But then because of the way they are, the only ones I could really drop where it would have a good impact is the dock area, and I can't drop those because of the water tank :cry:
I could drop the left hand 1ft sides, but it wouldnt give me oppertunities, and would probably be not as impactive as other areas. I'm going to have a little think, but it may be a future devolpment project. Giving me time to think about how to do it effectivley, and mprove my carpentry skills too! Haha!

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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby mumbles » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:48 pm

Even something a foot wide can provide enough relief for a really interesting scenic section

This little scene was only a foot or so wide

g45.jpg

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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby mumbles » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:51 pm


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Kavster
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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby Kavster » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:50 am

mumbles wrote:Even something a foot wide can provide enough relief for a really interesting scenic section

This little scene was only a foot or so wide


Wow, that looks really good! I was a bit shocked to see that it was unmodelled at the end of the page though! What happened?!

It isnt so much the 1ft width, more the location of the board. I have been looking into the woodland scenic foam incline sets, and think I could maybe make the 4% work. 4 inches in 8ft, but then I'm aware that 4% is a pretty steep gradient and that locos may struggle with it.

I think I'd need to get to around 80mm to make a decent height 2nd track? Which is just over 3 inches, so maybe the 3% set would work over around 8 ft? I'm not sure yet, I have to do a bit more measuring and calculations haha!

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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby TimberSurf » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:07 am

Don't worry, mumbles is building a new one! And I am sure that bits have been saved to recycle! Don' miss a trick of using negative contours and have roads that are "under" the track level! Gradients on roads can be very severe!
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Kavster
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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby Kavster » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:22 am

I have been thinking about this for a couple of days now, and thinking of different ways I can acheive having some variation in level.
The only way I can think of doing it is using the woodland scenics incline/decline sets and risers. However, I've costed this at just over £100 to get up and down on both sides. It's something a bit too expensive for me right now, having blown my budget on other materials this month, and xmas next month.
I think, and I know I may come to reegret this in the future, that I'm going to keep the baseboards flat, and use terrain to create variation around the scenes. I will no doubt change the layout over the years, and will aim to create some variation in baseboard height then. But, right now, I'm going keep it as it is, and go from there.

I'll lay the track (once the points are ordered) and see how it all fits. I'll then look at it in real life and see if any other oppertunities present themself for height variation.
I'm also going to look at the baseboards again, and see if I can modify any of them whilst keeping their structural integrity. As they are quite simple, I'm concerned that cutting sections out of them without the proper bracing will render them as good as jelly haha!

I'm going to have one last play and look around my track plan today, make sure that I'm as happy with it as I'm going to be right now, and then get some points ordered and hopefully start laying some track.

One point I wasnted to ask people actually...
I've seen people lay entire sheets of cork over their baseboard, and then add other cut out strips for the track on top of that. And I've also seen people just use strips of cork under the track straight onto the baseboard, and then scenic straight ontop of that.
Obviously, the cheaper option is to do the later, but I was wondering if there is any real advantage to corking your entire baseboard, so that you can scenic ontop of cork instead of the ply?

Also, I thought I'd just double check before I order it, in terms of the cork underlay for the track, I'm going for 3mm.
And if I do go for a baseboard covering of cork, i'd use 0.8-1mm for that, and then the 3mm again for the track underlay.

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End2end
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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby End2end » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:27 am

Mine track is just pinned to the baseboard.
I think the 2 main reasons for using cork is to give a shoulder for the ballast or to reduce baseboard noise.
Not everyone lays down cork.
If I decide the rolling stock noise is too much I will just cut and push into place some polystyrene sheets into the baseboard support gaps underneath between the uprights making sure not to push it too far as to interfere with any point motors etc.
Thanks
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TimberSurf
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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby TimberSurf » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:35 am

Read my thread viewtopic.php?f=15&t=49151&p=635015, the modern option.
I can't say I have heard of covering the whole layout with cork. Although I have have covered one of my boards, as the whole board is covered in track!
I can only guess that it might stem from using poor quality baseboards to even out (smooth) the surface. (not an issue with the high quality ply you have used)
The jury is still out on the Cork vs Foam debate, as I have not really run trains at speed in earnest (layout is too short)
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Kavster
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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby Kavster » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:30 pm

Ah, I see!
Well, I always going to at least put cork under the track, mainly for shouldering, and just to raise it a bit from the baseboard (even if only by 3mm! haha :lol: ). The sound proofing was not really a concern for me.
I have no sound loco's, as good as they are, I just can't justify spending that kind of money at this stage. Maybe int he future, but not now (unless i happen to come across an utter bargain!)
It's interesting to know that I do have the option to just pin straight to the baseboard without cork or foam though End2end. Did you have any problems with ballast applying or scenics?

Timbersurf, I have just read your thread and also part of your build thread you refernced too. I see what you mean about adding it to an entire section of board! I've had a quick look around the interwebs, and found that it is a different price point to the cork.
It looks like a quality product, and if I was concerned about noise levels, I think I would reach for it. But as I'm more concerned about cost that noise for this layout, I think cork is a better choice for me. But, I did learn something that I didnt know, so thanks for bringing that to my attention!
And as you mentioned the ply I used is of a good quality, maybe it's better to just cork under only the tracks, as it dosent seem i'll be gaining any benefit by corking the entire baseboard!

Talking of utter bargains...I was browsing good ol' Hattons on Black Friday evening to see what there might be, when I found a Heljan Class 47 in Freightliner Livery. But, it was numbered 47 258, and named Forth Ports Tilbury! I couldnt beleive my luck considering that Tilbury docks is where my docks are being based on. It was a bargain price of £62 in like new condition.
At the very least, It'll be a great addition to my Freighliner fleet, which is still in it's early stages yet haha! :lol:

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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby End2end » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:38 pm

Kavster wrote:It's interesting to know that I do have the option to just pin straight to the baseboard without cork or foam though End2end. Did you have any problems with ballast applying or scenics?

I haven't done the scenics yet but ballasting was a breeze as I bought a ballast spreader and using a finger, the sleepers were the guide for the ballast shoulder.
As can be seen here...
ballasting.jpg
ballasting.jpg (102.52 KiB) Viewed 262 times

Thanks
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Kavster
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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby Kavster » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:48 pm

Wow! That does look really effective!
And thats with the track at baseboard level, with nothing underneath it?
Is the black area just your baseboard painted black, or a different material?

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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby End2end » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:38 pm

Kavster wrote:And thats with the track at baseboard level, with nothing underneath it?

Yep.
Kavster wrote:Is the black area just your baseboard painted black, or a different material?

Yes just the baseboard painted black.

Just an FYI. The track sides are plainted by hand with RAILMATCH - SLEEPER GRIME paint
Thanks
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Kavster
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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby Kavster » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:46 pm

That does look effective!

On a seperate note...I've been playing round with the design again today.
I've put in 2nd and 3rd radius curves to convince myself even more that they would fit, and they do haha! :lol:

I've also decided to change it up a smal bit, but I think it works...
Let me know what you think...

First thing is I've divided the area up into two main running lines, and a branch line which will acces the TMD/Dock/Frieght areas.
There should be access across all tracks, unless i've missed something.
It may not be prototypical, but as long as it works, that's all I'm aiming for tbh!

I've reduced the size of the green areas so that I can fit in more scenic stuff, but I've kept the same general theme.

Also, I was hoping that this may give me the option to completley raise the main line up, and have the branch line and docks as baseboard height. But then, I couldnt work out how to connect the branch line to the main line in enough space...so, again, may revert back to just being creative with scenics as I mentioned earlier!

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IanM558
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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby IanM558 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:55 pm

I'm completely envious about this thread as I've been banging my head against a wall for over a year now trying to get a track plan that I like. I even bought 2 books which have been useless and my thread has struggled to hit 3 pages where you seem to have had all the help and encouragement you need!

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=50161

Anyway, what size space are you using as your plan pretty much has everything I'm after.
OO Gauge layout in the shed - "Shedford"
Construction - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=50500
https://www.flickr.com/photos/imulford/

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Kavster
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Re: Kavster's Loft Layout

Postby Kavster » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:07 pm

IanM558 wrote:I'm completely envious about this thread as I've been banging my head against a wall for over a year now trying to get a track plan that I like. I even bought 2 books which have been useless and my thread has struggled to hit 3 pages where you seem to have had all the help and encouragement you need!

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=50161

Anyway, what size space are you using as your plan pretty much has everything I'm after.


I'm sorry to hear that mate! I will have a look through your thread shortly as I'm about to head out for a bit.
I have to admit, I have also bought many track plan books, magazines, guides, browsed many websites and many forums as have also been struggling to get something that I like, works, is effective and cost effective too!
I've come to the realisation that I'm never going to be 100% happy with it, and that there's always something not going to be right about it. But, I'm also sure that over the years to come, I will adapt, change, modify and develop the plan. I Just have to settle on a plan to 'get me started'.
That being said, I still want to make sure it's decent and not just any old plan!

My space is a loft, so height is always a restriction.
It's about 2ft 5 inches off the floor, and that gives me enough clearance and access.
The width across where the station is, is 12ft, and the thinner section is just under 12ft also (including the station area base boards).

I've built most of the boards as 4ft x 2ft sections, and 1ft by 4ft sections with a few adjustments here and there.
There are three 4ft x 2ft boards across the top (station).
There are then two 1ft x 4ft boards running down either side.
The bottoms (docks) is two 4ft x 2ft boards, with a 4ft by 1ft 6 inch board also.

Lastly, as I only have a Mac, I've been using RailModeller Pro for the software to design it all on.

Hope that helps, and I'll be sure to read through your thread when I get a chance!


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