Loch Terry - OO 8x8 layout

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barney121e
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Re: Loch Terry - OO 8x8 layout

Postby barney121e » Thu May 11, 2017 1:46 pm

Dragonfly wrote:For the fiddle yard, personally I'd do something like this:

fdl1.jpg

Obviously there are compromises to be made. You'd be making more efficient use of the space, but there's no runround facility, so each train would need to alternate locos each time. Once the train is taken out, the loco runs back into the loco sidings on the left. Effectively there's storage for 9 locos and 5 trains there (absolutely full, 14 locos and 5 trains, but you wouldn't reach that in normal operation).


Would I be right in thinking that with this fiddle yard I would loose the continuous run element of the plan? Have you used a 3 way point or two as well? Number of trains will be small especially to start with.

Emettman wrote:
Dragonfly wrote:For the fiddle yard, personally I'd do something like this:


I like that variation: effectively a terminus worked with multiple pilot engines.

As ever, brake vans on goods trains are a bit of a pain.

Chris.


What is a pilot engine? And would brake vans be used on modern railways?

I have had a possible thought. I was thinking how I could hide the mainline round the bottom and was thinking of making it a gradient to passing station and continue on. The only flaw would be getting back to continuous line, as would be at lower level. A thought I had is would 2 fiddle yards on top of each other work? My thinking is then although I would loose continuous runs I could run trains either from station to low level yard or around to upper fiddle yard. Thinking it gives the look that trains arrive and then depart to somewhere else instead of back the way they come.

Any thoughts?

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Dragonfly
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Re: Loch Terry - OO 8x8 layout

Postby Dragonfly » Thu May 11, 2017 2:24 pm

barney121e wrote:Would I be right in thinking that with this fiddle yard I would loose the continuous run element of the plan?


Not at all. It simply means an extra set of points before entering the yard.

To demonstrate, I've quickly put together the beginnings of how I'd do the layout overall:

lochterry.jpg
lochterry.jpg (131.12 KiB) Viewed 689 times


The black line represents the edge of the scenic section, so the continuous run line reappears at a small junction back near the terminus.

barney121e wrote:Have you used a 3 way point or two as well?


Yes. Two. Much better use of space than two separate points.
=Doug
| Dragonfly | Current projects: Kidneston (00) / Clatter (N) / Much Oakley (N) / Workbench |

barney121e
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Re: Loch Terry - OO 8x8 layout

Postby barney121e » Thu May 11, 2017 2:41 pm

It's a thought. The operating well is set as in original plan, no possibility of moving it so having had a quick play it gets track close together near fiddle yard. Not a fan of the three way points either, mainly due to cost, three times the cost of a point. Not sure OH would approve. Then leaves the problem of line round bottom and how to disguise it.

Gives me things to think about.

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Dragonfly
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Re: Loch Terry - OO 8x8 layout

Postby Dragonfly » Thu May 11, 2017 3:48 pm

barney121e wrote:The operating well is set as in original plan, no possibility of moving it so having had a quick play it gets track close together near fiddle yard.


This shouldn't be an issue. The width of that section in your plan and mine are the same, 2 foot.

barney121e wrote:Not a fan of the three way points either, mainly due to cost, three times the cost of a point. Not sure OH would approve.


Understandable. Easy enough to swap them out for a few SL97 short Y-points then, they ought to do the trick.
=Doug
| Dragonfly | Current projects: Kidneston (00) / Clatter (N) / Much Oakley (N) / Workbench |

barney121e
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Re: Loch Terry - OO 8x8 layout

Postby barney121e » Thu May 11, 2017 7:18 pm

So based on your original thought, is this sort of what you were thinking?

buch52.png
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barney121e
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Re: Loch Terry - OO 8x8 layout

Postby barney121e » Thu May 11, 2017 10:35 pm

I keep making adjustments and maybe am loosing simplicity of plan. Passing station is a good idea. Track at end of station needs thinking about. Would a small station have another station quite close on same level. Maybe at a higher level makes more sense.
But then continuous line wouldn't work as would be a different height. Maybe the high and low fiddle yard might makes more sense.

Decisions, decisions.

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Emettman
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Re: Loch Terry - OO 8x8 layout

Postby Emettman » Fri May 12, 2017 1:44 pm

barney121e wrote:
What is a pilot engine? And would brake vans be used on modern railways?

I have had a possible thought. I was thinking how I could hide the mainline round the bottom and was thinking of making it a gradient to passing station and continue on. The only flaw would be getting back to continuous line, as would be at lower level. A thought I had is would 2 fiddle yards on top of each other work? My thinking is then although I would loose continuous runs I could run trains either from station to low level yard or around to upper fiddle yard. Thinking it gives the look that trains arrive and then depart to somewhere else instead of back the way they come.

Any thoughts?


Pilot engine. The term actually has at least three different uses, but the one here as a shunting engine for passenger stock: to set up and remove coaches (+mail vans and few others) .
In the variants we've been looking at it doesn't quite work, because to draw a rake of carriages off from an arriving loco, and then push them into an adjacent platform it needs a clear train length (as a headshunt or on the running line) and here this would mean the loco popping into view and then vanishing again. Odd.
What does work is using the locos in rotation on different trains. it would need no more than than 2 loco sidings opposing the fiddle yard plain tracks.

The reason I took he continuous run *behind* he fiddle yard was to give easier access to it for needed "hands on" moments, but also so that a circling train does not foul/occupy any of the fiddle yard, so that shunting there can be done with a train running.
This leaves the fiddle yard as a deliberate non-scenic area, in contrast to dragonfly's idea of having the fiddle yard at the back, behind a scenic screen. Both approaches are widely used.

Hence the crossover design to give 2 options from the terminus or either direction on the continuous run.

Image

I'll defer to the "real railway" specialists, but I'm pretty sure there there are still uses for brake vans on some traffic.

I don't think you've got enough gradient room for an extra low level fiddle yard with decent access to it.


Before the added bottom left station, which does make sense, I envisioned the outer loop having its lowest point at the crossover junction, and rising gently (OK, 1:45) to the highest point in the bottom right corner, giving a vertical separation from the terminus station.
(it could still be covered at that corner. Nice steep hillsides in Scotland.)

With the bottom left station added, the line could not climb so high, but this effect is cosmetic, not to get clearance for tracks to cross, so is not vritical.
More separation could be gained if the terminus line *dropped* slightly from the junction to the water level, but that would complicate construction quite a bit, and is almost certainly not worthwhile,


So, extra station, revised fiddleyard

Image
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

barney121e
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Re: Loch Terry - OO 8x8 layout

Postby barney121e » Fri May 12, 2017 2:40 pm

Thanks Chris

Unfortunately I have a few problems with that plan. I have medium points, where quite a few on the plan are smaller. Also I think the cost of the single slip at £34 is high and sure the OH would not allow it. And of course would need to purchase a crossover and 3 y points, more monies the boss might not allow.

Wiring would be another difficulty, points I can do but not sure about others. Would gather Y points are similar but other two not so sure about.

Is there anyway it could be done similar just using medium points? Will try two points back to back instead of the slip, to see if it works. Will also try fiddle yard on outside, think that is way id like to try it. Will post a pic once done.

barney121e
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Re: Loch Terry - OO 8x8 layout

Postby barney121e » Fri May 12, 2017 7:55 pm

Could something like this work?

emmtop.png
emmtop.png (21.28 KiB) Viewed 620 times

barney121e
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Re: Loch Terry - OO 8x8 layout

Postby barney121e » Wed May 17, 2017 9:20 pm

Been away playing with different designs and have finally settled on one. It is based on two layouts I have seen in magazines, Ardlui a real place and Loch Feldy not a real place. If anyone can see any problems let me know. The green part is the high scene, and the yellow bit is the FY area non scenic. FY is not totally complete.

ardfeldyfinal.png
ardfeldyfinal.png (87.18 KiB) Viewed 588 times


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