Plans for the new loft...

[Brooker]

...for when I have one...

So in the other two threads I have started since becoming a member, I had lots of advice giving me food for thought.
My initial efforts were always likely to be temporary, but I had no interest in building something portable (for lots of what I think are good reasons).
I got to this stage with a track plan and started on scenery. For pictures see the thread in my signature.

Taking on board the advice, I've had a bit of a think, and I have some suggestions I'd like to run past the assembled NRM masses.

I'd like to base bits of my model on things in real life. I am based near Winchester, and mountain bike along the old railway line that runs through Kings Worthy and along the side or Worthy Down Barracks. Google being my friend I looked us this old railway and found it was once The Didcot, Newbury and Southampton Railway.

I wanted to get some military vehicles on the layout too, so now I have both a subject which once had real stations and everything.

This lead to the revised plan below. I've taken from real life, the Hockley Viaduct, Winchester Chesil Station, Bar End Yard and finally the Worthy Down Halt. Nothing will be prototypical, I don't have the space, so the elements above will not be in the right places in relationship to each other - but hey, there is nothing wrong with a bit of modellers license.



The new plan is 90degrees out of rotation. However, the station top centre will be the Winchester Chesil, the four sidings at the bottom will be Bar End Yard. The bridge on the left will become the Hockley Viaduct and finally, the little platform also on the left will become Worthy Down Halt.

The road will not be a road, but the river Itchen.

I'll take as much as I can from real life in terms of buildings, signage etc. and see where that takes me.

In terms of the colours on the second plan. Plain white is elevated, green is at ground level and pink are either climbing or falling.
A fiddle yard will need to appear somewhere too - I can expand to the right (in my current house) or would also consider a second tier below what I am currently calling ground level.

All OO, Late BR - so lots of choice re locos and liveries.

I'd love to hear any comments you have on this.

Thanks in advance...

[Brooker]

I also meant to say, my plan will be to develop a section at a time in terms of the scenery and buildings.
If I am clever, I should also be able to work on Bar End and Worthy Down as mobile boards to begin with, also the station area and potentially the viaduct too.
This will mean I will have something to work on while the my house situation is up in the air and then hopefully incorporate into the full layout at a later time.
I may even be able to choose between installing the full layout in a loft or a garage, depending on what I end up with!!

[Brooker]

So following on from deciding to do things a bit more properly, I ordered a couple of books from the well known on-line retailer.
Winchester (Great Western): A Snapshot in Time
and
An Historical Survey of the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton Railway - Layouts and Illustrations

The first one arrived yesterday, and certainly looks good from a quick flick through the pages. I'll have to look at other offerings from the same author.

Second one is not due for delivery until the middle of next week.

Also looks as though I'm going to HAVE to get some GWR loco's as well - shame!!

[alex3410]

i love a good old track planning session the software makes it so easy to play around with!

the only thing i will say is dont get to set on one design at this stage, you will be much better of getting the actual dimensions of the loft you will be building in before anything becomes 'set in stone' - even then its liable to change when you come to actually put the track down, my latest attempt has done several times!

The other thing to watch out for it access into the loft - specifically where does the hatch open in relation to the layout - it can have a big impact on where things get placed & sometimes means rotating the layout etc.

either way keep planning and researching the end result will be all the better for it!

No harm in getting a few GWR locos in the meantime i am a big fan of the pannier tanks

[dan8400]

I agree with the above comments.

Also, you may end up with a loft that is 3m wide by 6m long (or whatever it may be). You plan shows 2.9m x 3.2m.

It is good to have a play with the software and nothing gives you more ideas than seeing what fits where.

I'll be following this thread as you go. I think you have the right idea, modelling what is real but with some compromise/compression. That part can't be helped.

Thanks
Dan

[Brooker]

Thanks for all the replies. Great to have some feedback.

I've also now found out that the station at Chesil had a scissor crossing - which I cant currently accommodate in the station area, for two reasons. There is only 1 running line feeding the station, and there is not likely to be enough space.

So, the thought now is to replace the current run round loop type crossing at the bottom of the plan with a scissor crossing. This would also enable improved left and right hand running - I think - though it also may restrict things in terms of locos and trains passing on the same line...

Also in mind is the need to work on the track layout in the Bar End yard area bottom right ish - I need to make this more realistic. If any one can make some suggestions of a sensible track plan for a four siding yard - or point me in the direction of some plans of the actual yard at Bar End that would be great.

I've now got a track plan for the Chesil Station, so will incorporate parts of that into the station area I currently have at the top...

Also, you may end up with a loft that is 3m wide by 6m long (or whatever it may be). You plan shows 2.9m x 3.2m.
... think you have the right idea, modelling what is real but with some compromise/compression.

-

you will be much better of getting the actual dimensions of the loft you will be building in before anything becomes 'set in stone'

thanks Dan and Alex, and I agree completely, I have no idea what space I'll have in the new place - but I've got to start somewhere

alex3410 wrote:
The other thing to watch out for it access into the loft - specifically where does the hatch open in relation to the layout
Dave wrote:
When I had a layout in the loft I managed to drop a diorama, and a loco through the hatch

Dave - I've been there, thankfully not with a loco, but with scenery and a 25m extension lead...
A removable cover to put in place when in the loft is on the list of things to get around to eventually.

Cheers All,

[Emettman]

lllreplace the current run round loop type crossing at the bottom of the plan with a scissor crossing. This would also enable improved left and right hand running - I think - though it also may restrict things in terms of locos and trains passing on the same line...

Also in mind is the need to work on the track layout in the Bar End yard area bottom right ish - I need to make this more realistic. If any one can make some suggestions of a sensible track plan for a four siding yard -
,

Can I offer on these two?
On OO scissors crossovers, there is a formation possible with Peco points.
At just on 2ft long, a nice feature is the complete absence of reverse curves.



On Bar End Yard, for operation (but may move away from the real thing) the first point off the running line needs to be reversed, to create a headshunt.
(train frequency on model layouts tends to mean using the running line for a headshunt is more awkward than it might be on the real thing, at perhaps six trains a day)
If trains are arriving headfirst, a run-round is going to be needed so that they can leave that way.
So, a goods arrival line, with a loco release crossover to the adjacent siding.
Depending on the longest train to be handles, the crossover need not be at the end, with only a loco's length of track beyond the points.
This could leave two short but useful sidings as well as the two longer ones.
If that can't be visualised, do say and I'll sketch a diagram.

Chris

[Brooker]

Many thanks Chris, I must admit I was hoping you'd drop into my thread!

Let me try and get my head around the suggestions for the yard before I ask for a sketch.

Thanks for the image of the scissor too - I've been struggling to master google sufficiently to find any images of combinations of peco points showing how they fit together in terms of geometry.

All the best

Dave

[sishades]

My advice to you regarding your plan is to avoid long straights where posssible. Try to incorporate transition curves and long bends. This will give a more realistic feel to your layout and avoid it looking like a train set. Avoid parallel runs with the baseboard edge. The beauty in running a train is to see them move gracefully around long curves at realtively slow speeds. But most importantly enjoy what yopu build and run whatever you like.

[Brooker]

Hi Sishades,

Many thanks for your comments. To some extent I will be using IMRIRWIW for the design as well as the running.

BUT I do want to make the layout as good and realistic as my skills allow.

Within the footprint I'm currently working to, I've certainly got scope for longer curves in the bottom left corner and still have the space to adopt Chris' peco scissor crossing.

The (2nd and 3rd radius) curves in the top left will be partially hidden by a (steep) embankment rising up behind Worthy Down Halt.

I could also relax the white curves top right, but at the expense of platform length.

The rising inside corner on the bottom right and the white high level bend I could also relax, moving the curved point in towards the centre of the bottom section. By how much would depend on any sacrifice or change of plan for the yard!!

I guess as with everything in life, what I can do will come down to a series of compromises.

One thing is certain - I appreciate the input from others.

[Brooker]

Remember that you may have to get out in a hurry if something goes wrong

For sure

[Brooker]

So, some thinking time this morning before I head out for the afternoon.
I've incorporated the scissor in my upper level line and eased those corners in the bottom left hand corner - as below....



I've also tried to interpret the comments on the Bar End Yard and now have a plan as below...



It would seem I've managed to add an extra siding!! The bottom two sidings and the top one are over 100m scale length - so hopefully reasonable.
I've resorted to setrack points for the loco release cross overs (as in the station area too), to try and minimise the negative impact on the length of the sidings caused by the addition of the cross overs.

I also now have the head shut at the first point in the yard.

I may be able to look at the location of Worthy Down halt and move is down a fraction, leaving more room to ease the curves in the top left - but if these are to be right at the rear of the layout and partly hidden, I'm unsure as to whether the finished product would be significantly improved or not.

I'd be interested to hear if you all think this is an improvement on the initial ideas.

Thanks in advance!

[Emettman]

I've also tried to interpret the comments on the Bar End Yard and now have a plan as below...





I'd be interested to hear if you all think this is an improvement on the initial ideas.

Thanks in advance!

The scissors crossover sits very nicely there!

You have four too many points at Bar End now, even allowing for the extra siding, and that is eating into the siding storage space.
Lose the four at the bottom right.
What you have now is an arrival and departure track, nearest the top edge of the board.
The next track down in principally the loco-run round, though it has its own 15" siding which can have a variety of uses, and wagons can be shunted onto the run-round section itself for temporary convenience.

That then leaves three plain sidings of considerable length, which might even be trimmed back for a less cramped cosmetic effect.

The headshunt needs extending. Ideally, having run round the arriving train the loco could draw the whole train forward into the headshunt until the last wagon was clear of the three-way point, allowing the rake of wagons to be transferred to any of the sidings in one go. As it is only 2 or 3 wagons at a time could be moved.
Running the headshunt to stop just as the bridge starts would match normal railway use and be cosmetically effective.

You might not want to shunt the yard with the mainline engine. A dedicated shunter could sit in the headshunt ready for the goods to arrive, wait for the main engine to detach and go and sit in the short siding (for coal and water in steam era) before starting shunting duties.

Chris

[Brooker]

The scissors crossover sits very nicely there!

I thought that too Chris - it gives a nice transition into the right hand bend I think!

I've also now ditched the four extra points as you suggested, along with extending the head shunt (the initial length showing my lack of real railway knowledge!!).

I'm liking how this process is coming together.

It looks as though I may be able to break this into some good sections to build a bit at a time too.

The yard for one, the scissor crossing and Worthy Down Halt.

I'm planning on the boards being of an open structure, with a raised track bed too, which I am hoping will help with the modular construction.

Time to pause again for thought - but this is certainly to be continued.

Many thanks for your help.

Dave

[Brooker]

So....
Another couple of days thinking and planning, some more pictures and more questions.
Along with the track plan, I've also been researching potential locos and such like - having a location to base things on certainly focus' one's mind.
I've reworked the headshunt for bar end yard and now have this - which I think will work well - if needs be, I can remove one of the sidings to make more room for buildings and scenery.


I've also located a track plan for the station at Chesil


the siding top left is to a livestock loading area.
double track off to the left is towards Shawford, the Hockley viaduct and Bar End Yard (in real life, not in my model!)
Black box bottom centre is a signal box.
the single track off to the right runs pretty much straight into a tunnel - which again I will not be able to model.

So the question really is, how best to incorporate the station plan above, into the space I have in my current plan - as shown below:


Green line is at 0, pink line is descending from left to right and will probably be hidden by either low relief buildings or a backscene.
All the white track is at high level. I've got a reasonable amount of space to play with below the platforms.

One of my major considerations is where the top white line crosses over the pink on the right - I need to be careful how far south the white lines come - or I'll loose clearance for the line climbing beneath it.

I don't have much space for head shunts or sidings on the left of this image.

I'll be having a play in SCARM, but would appreciate any input the hive mind of NRM can provide.

Best Wishes All,
Dave