A Call To SCARM...

Post your design ideas for any layout that you are planning to build in the future. Keep members up-to-date with your designs and future plans for your layout.
User avatar
carnehan
Posts: 1341
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:44 pm

A Call To SCARM...

Postby carnehan » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:14 am

...or any other design software. So what's this all about? Well, two weeks ago I launched the inaugural meeting of the Ballymena Model Railway Club. With its four founding members we are keen to make strides forward and build a layout and have a couple of months away from club surroundings to make some choices as to what sort of layout we produce.

One of the members is a complete novice so isn't keen to replicate a plan for use. The second member also doesn't feel confident and the third has expressed little enthusiasm for it either. This leaves me. I've given it some thought but am unsure as to what would satisfy everyone so am hoping for some creative ideas from you. I didn't want to single anyone out in particular but I know Emmetman is very adept at these sort of assistance projects so I'll just give him a nudge here. :wink:

So, what's the brief. We have a club room that will allow a layout to extend to 12' maximum. We want it to be transportable should the club ever expand and we need to find bigger premises (the room we have would not cater for much more than a dozen people). We are thinking of a scenic length on one side connected by two boards either end to a fiddle yard on the opposite side. The depth of the scenic 12' section would be either 2' or 3' but I'm siding on the 2' for maintenance, etc.

A viaduct is a priority and if possible we would like there to be a DCC and DC option on the layout. The electrics is not my strong point so perhaps someone could advise if this is viable. If it is, then both formats are desirable in order not to alienate members and their current DC home setups. We don't necessarily want a station. I had thought that at one end the lines would enter the scene through tunnels and leave the other side behind a large factory structure. In this case, for scenic interest, a yard for the factory from the mainline would be desirable.

Of course, none of this is set in stone other than the inclusion of some sort of viaduct. No one has ever had space at home to model this so we are keen to do so. The scenics could extend to the side boards too. A fairly simple plan is more than fine as this is a first layout and club funds will be limited. If anyone has any ideas they would like to submit, I'd be eternally grateful.

Thanks.

Paul

User avatar
carnehan
Posts: 1341
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:44 pm

Re: A Call To SCARM...

Postby carnehan » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:22 am

Sorry, I should have added, that the layout would be OO gauge. :D

Paul

User avatar
Emettman
Posts: 2337
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:43 pm
Location: Cornwall UK
Contact:

Re: A Call To SCARM...

Postby Emettman » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:27 am

Interesting possibilities come to mind.

First question that struck: what would be the longest train, passenger or freight, that would be wanted?
That will affect a lot of factors particularly "off-stage"
Similarly "minimum acceptable radius" if a rectangular front: scenic back: storage design is envisaged.

Any region or era preferred?

Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

User avatar
railsquid
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:43 pm
Location: Tokyo

Re: A Call To SCARM...

Postby railsquid » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:07 pm

carnehan wrote:.
A viaduct is a priority and if possible we would like there to be a DCC and DC option on the layout. The electrics is not my strong point so perhaps someone could advise if this is viable. If it is, then both formats are desirable in order not to alienate members and their current DC home setups.

I'm not exactly an electrical expert and have no DCC, but was considering it at one point and I'm pretty sure it can be done, you'd need a master switch between the DC and DCC inputs which when set to DCC would bypass any DC block sections you have. But you'd need to be careful when switching modes as any DC locomotives on the track would not take kindly to DCC voltage .

More expert opinions probably available.

User avatar
Flashbang
Posts: 3236
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:07 pm
Location: SE United Kingdom

Re: A Call To SCARM...

Postby Flashbang » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:17 pm

There is basically no difference between DC and DCC wiring. All track and points are the same.
All you need to ensure is all DC locos are removed. All DC controllers are disconnected from the rails and set all isolating section switches to On. Then you can connect the DCC system to the track feed wires removed from the DC controller(s). Note where two or more DC controllers are used it will then be necessary to connect all the track feed wires to form one pair of wires for the DCC to connect onto. Ensuring all rails are to the same connection. i.e. all left hand rail go to one connection all right hand rail connect to the other connection on the DCC.

For the more advetruios this can be done by some using suitable switching relays etc. Then no physical disconnection or reconnection so needed.

On my clubs OO control panel which originally had two DC controllers, the DCC input to the layout was taken to a 4pole change over relay coil. So all the while DC was being used the relay is de energised. As soon as DCC is fed to the panel the relay energised via a bridge rectifier feeding the relay coil and then via its four sets of contacts the rail feeds where disconnected from the DC controllers and reconnected to the DCC input terminals. Sort of automatic change over. But still all the DC locos need to be removed and all isolating section switches turned On for DCC operation.
Attachments
dc-DCC selection 2 track.jpg
dc-DCC selection 2 track.jpg (137.57 KiB) Viewed 891 times
Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

User avatar
carnehan
Posts: 1341
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:44 pm

Re: A Call To SCARM...

Postby carnehan » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:21 pm

Railsquid and Flashbang, thank you for the information on DC and DCC running. I haven't a clue what any of it means but hopefully one of the other chaps will. :roll:

Hypothetical question. What if we wanted to run a DC loco and a DCC one on the layout at the same time? From reading it would appear to me that this isn't possible. Are there any layouts out there that have, say, a DCC operated mainline and a DC branch line where never the twain shall meet?

Emmetman, a couple of answers to your questions.

1) One of the members has a Midland Pullman and a Eurostar train. Assuming he would want to run either I think it sensible that a layout is built to suit both.

2) In answering number one I think number two gets answered regarding radius curves. The smoother the better is probably best. We discussed curves at the initial meeting and were agreed that it may be necessary to insert a triangular wedge at either or both ends to allow for sensible curves to be achieved. This could probably be attached to the side boards rather than the main scenic board.

3) Again, this is probably answered somewhat in question one. I like my diesels of the earlier green and blue eras. The other member with those two trains highlighted is obviously a man of no particular era at all and the others are both steam men. I would envisage a layout with no specific time period in mind in terms of scenics allowing us to run whatever we want and opt for specific time periods depending on stock on the line. I am building a freight stock at present so I'd like to be able to run both freight and coach stock.

As a first club layout we want to be as loose as possible with the priority in allowing trains to run through a scenic landscape. Three of the members don't have a current home layout that is operational and its hit and miss as to when I can run stock on mine. This would give us all the opportunity to bring our new buys, old favourites and some things different along and have good old fashioned running sessions.

Paul

Ex-Pat
Posts: 1593
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:51 pm
Location: Dundalk Ireland

Re: A Call To SCARM...

Postby Ex-Pat » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:30 pm

Well Paul - is this the "excuse" you've been looking for I wonder? (Perhaps a couple of your fellow members might want to come?)

User avatar
Flashbang
Posts: 3236
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:07 pm
Location: SE United Kingdom

Re: A Call To SCARM...

Postby Flashbang » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:45 am

Hi

With some DCC systems you can run one DC loco on DCC powered rails by using address number 0 (Zero). However, it is considered bad practice to ever leave a DC loco stationary on DCC rail power, as youre very likely to burn out the locos motor. So best advice is keep DC locos to DC only.
DCC fitted loco will if the option has not been disabled run on DC power with some sounds too playing where sound fitted locos are used on DC. No harm will be done to a DCC fitted loco on conventional DC power. Note: DCC Fitted locos will not like PWM or Feed back DC controllers as the decoder in the loco gets easily confused by the pulses being sent from the controller and thinks they are DCC signals!

The Bachmann Midland pullman is/was only available as DCC Fitted so it should run on either system (unless DC operation has been turned off). I doubt the Hornby Eurostar is DCC Fitted though when sold as a standard set, unless it was purchased as DCC Fitted or has been converted to DCC.

The other option where simple DC operation is needed from a DCC controller/system, is to connect a loco decoders motor output (Grey and Orange wires) to the rails and the DCC to its input (Red and Black wires). Then it will act like any other decoder and provide DC power output to operate one DC loco, but controlled by the DCC system. No other controllers should be connected to the rails. I would use a decoder rated at around 1.5Amp motor output if possible.
Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

User avatar
carnehan
Posts: 1341
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:44 pm

Re: A Call To SCARM...

Postby carnehan » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:07 pm

Ex-pat, now that is an idea. We may not have a layout or much structure yet but that is no excuse in not having a Jolly Boys Outing!

Flashbang, once again thank you. As per your previous post, it's all a bit double Dutch to me but one of the fellas is much more clued in so I will pass this info on and hopefully we can put it to some good use.

Paul

User avatar
Emettman
Posts: 2337
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:43 pm
Location: Cornwall UK
Contact:

Re: A Call To SCARM...

Postby Emettman » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:10 pm

[quote="carnehan"
Emmetman, a couple of answers to your questions.

1) One of the members has a Midland Pullman and a Eurostar train. Assuming he would want to run either I think it sensible that a layout is built to suit both.

2) In answering number one I think number two gets answered regarding radius curves.
Paul[/quote]

OK, makes a conventional front/back arrangement with 3rd and 4th radii curved for the double track (offscene) obvious front runners.

I've been looking trying to find a place where a station abutted a viaduct which abbuted a tunnel, but so far have only found any two out of three.

Monsal Head viaduct and Headstone tunnel being perhaps the most appealing pairing I've fouind to date.
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/m/monsal_dale/index17.shtml

Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

User avatar
carnehan
Posts: 1341
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:44 pm

Re: A Call To SCARM...

Postby carnehan » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:47 pm

Nice find Chris. I like that.

Paul


Return to “Personal Layouts - Planning”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest