My First N gauge 2x4

Post your design ideas for any layout that you are planning to build in the future. Keep members up-to-date with your designs and future plans for your layout.
Benjit
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 4:10 pm
Location: Basingstoke

My First N gauge 2x4

Postby Benjit » Fri May 20, 2016 1:28 pm

Hi All,

(So I’m going to try this again after my previous new post vanished when I went to submit).

Long story short this is going to me my first N gauge layout and first train set built alone. As such I’m going to try and keep things simple with Peco 80 setrack but I also want to try some new things like, scenery detailing, water, lighting, signal/point motors and general wiring.

It'll be a 2x4 part time layout, either under the bed or hinged on the spare room wall.

Here's a link to a google drive folder, hope this is ok (Sorry I don't have an account for any image hosting sites)
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

I've also included the SCARM file if anyone want to see it themselves. As you'll see I’m on layout 7, version 7, so have done a lot of planning so far. After trying to work with bridges and figures of 8 I've settled on a less daunting design but included more sidings. Plus with the bridges and canal it could still prove quite the challenge.

Some things I’m not sure of:-
1. Where to put the power to. Do I just pick any piece of track to power too? Should I include extra power (droppers)? I'm hoping to at least have 2 controls, the outer blue loop and inner yellow loop and sidings. Possibly the Goods Yard and head shunt could have their own power too, though that maybe too much wiring for my first layout.

2. Also bridge height over the canal. From a few sites I think a canal boat/barge will be around 15-25 mm high but I’m not sure on clearance and how deep the water will be, here it's modelled at 10mm. Is that common The track height is 30mm above the water, modelled here.

3. I thought about maybe adding a 2% incline through the tunnel and then back down again along the back straight, just to give it some extra interest.

Cheers :)

nickbrad
Posts: 829
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:53 am
Location: Lincoln, UK

Re: My First N gauge 2x4

Postby nickbrad » Fri May 20, 2016 1:39 pm

This looks good, I'd say the more feeds you have for power, the better off you'll be in terms of reliability. I don't thinking the inclined track is necessary personally, but that is up to you. Operations wise, there's plenty to do there and I don't see any real pitfalls in the design.

User avatar
Emettman
Posts: 2252
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:43 pm
Location: Cornwall UK
Contact:

Re: My First N gauge 2x4

Postby Emettman » Fri May 20, 2016 5:40 pm

Hello Benjit: Just to see if this works, for your images.

Image

Looks like! I used "save image url" on one of the pictures you directed us to and pasted it here as an image.

Just thinking.. (I do this. I can be told to stop,shut up, etc.)
Seventeen points is quite a lot for a trial essay and, if you find you like N, you are almost certain to want to graduate away from the sharp and dead-frog Peco setrack points, of which you have fourteen.
I would be inclined to suggest looking at something simpler with better pointwork, but the top rule here is that "It's my railway and I'll have it my way" so comments made by myself or other are very much yours to pick up or discard freely, as you wish.


Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

Benjit
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 4:10 pm
Location: Basingstoke

Re: My First N gauge 2x4

Postby Benjit » Sun May 22, 2016 10:45 am

Thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated.

Emettman wrote:Just thinking.. (I do this. I can be told to stop,shut up, etc.)
Seventeen points is quite a lot for a trial essay and, if you find you like N, you are almost certain to want to graduate away from the sharp and dead-frog Peco setrack points, of which you have fourteen.
I would be inclined to suggest looking at something simpler with better pointwork, but the top rule here is that "It's my railway and I'll have it my way" so comments made by myself or other are very much yours to pick up or discard freely, as you wish.


Chris


Yes now you point it out that is a lot of points (not pun intended) but i do enjoy shunting and good yards runs so would be inclined to keep them. However if i can streamine the layout points but have the same amount of sidings that would be good.
I have read up a few articles and books on electro frogs but the wiring goes over my head, though i'm sure it's simple once you know how, i guess it comes down to confidence.

Cheers for the feedback :)

User avatar
Emettman
Posts: 2252
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:43 pm
Location: Cornwall UK
Contact:

Re: My First N gauge 2x4

Postby Emettman » Sun May 22, 2016 12:20 pm

I was afraid I'd said too much, but I lean that way, and am prepared to take a hit for that rather than not say something that might be important.
You can always shut me up: I don't explode.

I've just asked in another thread about how the tight 9" radius insulated setrack points measure up in performance compared to any live-frog versions.
Especially for slow-speed shunting (with small locos, too) the standard wisdom is that they should be preferred.

Trouble is, there's none as tight-curved as the setrack ones so using electrofrogs almost certainly means a much simpler layout in the space,
Similarly with the curve radii: the bigger the better, even though N radius track is available right down to 5 1/2 inch radius (mainly for street trams or very short wheelbase stock designed for that limit.)
It is a matter of personal choices.

There are some people here far more experienced in N than I am, who may be able to support me or correct me. on the above.

Is the layout going to be DC (conventional) or DCC (digital chips in the locos)? That can make some difference to how the wiring goes.

Chris.
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

Benjit
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 4:10 pm
Location: Basingstoke

Re: My First N gauge 2x4

Postby Benjit » Mon May 23, 2016 9:50 am

Hi Emettman,

I'd certainly rather you said too much than not say something. I'm very open to constructive criticism, that's why i came to a forum for "New railway modellers" :)

Emettman wrote: I've just asked in another thread about how the tight 9" radius insulated setrack points measure up in performance compared to any live-frog versions.
Especially for slow-speed shunting (with small locos, too) the standard wisdom is that they should be preferred.

Trouble is, there's none as tight-curved as the setrack ones so using electrofrogs almost certainly means a much simpler layout in the space,
Similarly with the curve radii: the bigger the better, even though N radius track is available right down to 5 1/2 inch radius (mainly for street trams or very short wheelbase stock designed for that limit.)
It is a matter of personal choices.

There are some people here far more experienced in N than I am, who may be able to support me or correct me. on the above.

Is the layout going to be DC (conventional) or DCC (digital chips in the locos)? That can make some difference to how the wiring goes.

Chris.


Electro-frog points are something i would like to get my head around and adapt too but as you say it' limits me on space, when i'ma already limited to a 4x2 baseboard.

Is there a problem using insul-frog and electro-frog on the same layout? Perhaps i could leave the curved insul-forg turnouts, on the blue line, as they are but change the ST-5 and ST-6 turnouts to electro-frog ones with wider curve radi. Would that work using different types of points on the same DC layout?

I'll experiment some more today, using SCARM and see what a electro-frog layout looks like.

Also the layout will be DC (conventional)

User avatar
SR/ScR Fan
Posts: 637
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:28 pm
Location: Camberley
Contact:

Re: My First N gauge 2x4

Postby SR/ScR Fan » Mon May 23, 2016 10:01 am

Hi Benjit,

Big plan! I wish you luck.

My only advice is regarding the curved Setrack points. My J94 and class 03 refused to run over them at anything slower than ramming speed! The plastic insulfrog is HUGE on these points compard to the ST5 and ST6.

nickbrad
Posts: 829
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:53 am
Location: Lincoln, UK

Re: My First N gauge 2x4

Postby nickbrad » Mon May 23, 2016 11:48 am

You can use both insulfrog and electrofrog on the same layout, the main difference in practical terms is that both directions will be permanently live with electrofrog, whereas only the route which is set by the points will be live with insulfrog. This is a moot point though if you provide electrical breaks and isolated sections after the points

User avatar
Emettman
Posts: 2252
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:43 pm
Location: Cornwall UK
Contact:

Re: My First N gauge 2x4

Postby Emettman » Mon May 23, 2016 5:25 pm

Benjit wrote:Hi Emettman,

I'll experiment some more today, using SCARM and see what a electro-frog layout looks like.

Also the layout will be DC (conventional)


I get this for a pure electrofrog layout Peco Sl-E395 (R) SL-E396 (L), curves ST-15 or ST-17 radius

Image

The pair of tracks at the far right are supposed to be under a raised townscape (road down to goods yard between sidings and loco shed headshunt.
That gives you up to three trains on the singe mainline with any one of them able to lap, if that is wanted.
The pair of lines on left get an island platform with retaining wall beyond with station building at that level. The inner loop also acts as headshunt for the sidings.
10" the smallest radius.

Tighter points and track would be needed to make more use of the central area.

Thinking, still.
Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

Benjit
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 4:10 pm
Location: Basingstoke

Re: My First N gauge 2x4

Postby Benjit » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:24 pm

HI All,

So i'm reigniting this dead topic as an update to my progression.

Thanks to all for their responses, I've had some more time to think and plan my priorities into a layout and bought some books on the subject.

Image

Image


images hosting

Image

Image


free photo upload

[url]https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BzQ_3ggT1GRbeGFGWklYR0otVjg&usp=sharing
[/url]

Here are some pics of my new track plan, i've also added these and the SCARM file to the google drive folder as before.
What do you think?
I know the tunnel height clearance is quite tight but i can't make the gradients any steeper. I think the max gradient is currently 2.5%
I've also tried my best to use second or third radius track as much as possible.
The main focus is the canal depot, where most of the action will begin or end and i'm wanting to set it in the 1930s GWR.

Anyway hope this image hosting site works, otherwise i'll shrink the images down and re-upload.

Thanks,
Ben

nickbrad
Posts: 829
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:53 am
Location: Lincoln, UK

Re: My First N gauge 2x4

Postby nickbrad » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:22 pm

Just wanting to confirm, is that centre station on a slope?

Benjit
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 4:10 pm
Location: Basingstoke

Re: My First N gauge 2x4

Postby Benjit » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:52 am

nickbrad wrote:Just wanting to confirm, is that centre station on a slope?



Yes that is right. Unfortunately i saw no way around it as it the track needs to start the incline to reach the minimum height of 50mm and the tracks are joined by the front crossover points.
Hopefully int he grand scheme of things it wont be too noticeable, if the station is on the same slope as the track.

nickbrad
Posts: 829
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:53 am
Location: Lincoln, UK

Re: My First N gauge 2x4

Postby nickbrad » Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:10 pm

My only concern is rolling stock rolling away when you stop at that station. You may be ok, but I'd get a piece of scrap board and test before committing yourself to the design

User avatar
Emettman
Posts: 2252
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:43 pm
Location: Cornwall UK
Contact:

Re: My First N gauge 2x4

Postby Emettman » Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:51 pm

Looks good. If you are not shunting at the station the gradient shouldn't matter. The sidings can be level.


in terms of saving gradient, what are you making the upper station's baseboard out of? If that can be thinner, everything gets that little bit easier.

Build the lower tracks and then and then (temporarily, lightly) fit them with walls high enough to give clearance.
These will be the bracing for a top surface of thin plywood.
Add Pva to tops of walls, add upper baseboard to top of walls, add weights and wait. Lift away upper baseboard *and* walls.
Walls can then be reinforced on sides *away* from lower tracks.

It may be an idea to make the bay track, the platform and station building as a separate board that can easily be removed to give access to the lower tracks without disturbing the rest of the station.

If using point motors, at least some will need to be installed above the baseboard on the upper terminus, to keep minimum height.

Chris.
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

Benjit
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 4:10 pm
Location: Basingstoke

Re: My First N gauge 2x4

Postby Benjit » Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:42 pm

nickbrad wrote:My only concern is rolling stock rolling away when you stop at that station. You may be ok, but I'd get a piece of scrap board and test before committing yourself to the design


That's in interesting point i had not thought of. Though i don't suspect i'll be leaving rolling stock there without a loco attached but i should add it to my list of things to test.

Emettman wrote:in terms of saving gradient, what are you making the upper station's baseboard out of? If that can be thinner, everything gets that little bit easier.

Build the lower tracks and then and then (temporarily, lightly) fit them with walls high enough to give clearance.
These will be the bracing for a top surface of thin plywood.
Add Pva to tops of walls, add upper baseboard to top of walls, add weights and wait. Lift away upper baseboard *and* walls.
Walls can then be reinforced on sides *away* from lower tracks.

It may be an idea to make the bay track, the platform and station building as a separate board that can easily be removed to give access to the lower tracks without disturbing the rest of the station.

If using point motors, at least some will need to be installed above the baseboard on the upper terminus, to keep minimum height.

Chris.


Hi Chris, thanks for feedback.

I had planned on using 3mm ply for the upper baseboard. I had though about plasticard but it probably wouldn't strong enough in single sheets.
That's a good plan for getting the height right and making sure there is clearance, i'll certainly lay the bottom track first. I am planning on having most of the back (top of the plans) open for ease of access once the upper level is attached though having a lift away station would be good for getting some light underneath should i need it.

Thanks for the tips


Also as my planned progressed i had come to the realisation that there will be a few top mounted point motors, i'll try and hide them in signal boxes or other buildings.


Return to “Personal Layouts - Planning”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest