Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post your design ideas for any layout that you are planning to build in the future. Keep members up-to-date with your designs and future plans for your layout.
yetiman12
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Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by yetiman12 »

All through my junior years, the "trainset" was brought out onto my mums dining room table and i got may be 6 weeks worth of enjoyment before it was packed back into a cupboard. That was in 1995 and its been in there since!!

University/work and buying my own has seen me with a loft, (that i have boarded out and have light and power in there), and the suggestion of my parents they want their cupboard back, This led my wife to suggest why not put it up in the loft. 5 minutes later i was up there with a tape measure wondering what i can do! She's regretting it ever since.

I've been out of the hobby for a long time and other than the odd glimpse in a window havne't been following the trends (or prices!!) what used to be a £20 lima model now seems to be £150!!

Despite now working i want to keep the hobby within a reasonable budget and my plan is to model on a late 80's - mid 90's era as that is where most of my diesel stock is from.

I have attached a design from SCARM of what i am thinking of doing - very much work in progress!! Its about 11' wide and about 3.5' deep with the side sections around 1.5 foot wide. They will likely go longer (but narrower) as it gets built

Basically a decent sized single loop, with a terminus station, a main terminus station, a through station and a "heritage" railway that has access to the main line for specials. From this can run a selection of railcars, but also mainline passenger trains and various freight. The "yard" on the right would be to hold all freight - mixture of freight wagons etc.

i'm keeping with DC and likely a single controller - Gaugemaster with feedback.

AN element of scenery/styling but just want it to more "fun" than a really serious planned operation.

Any thoughts/suggestions/ideas welcome!!

Thanks
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Emettman
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Re: Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by Emettman »

Hello and Welcome, yetiman!
yetiman12 wrote:
i'm keeping with DC and likely a single controller - Gaugemaster with feedback.

AN element of scenery/styling but just want it to more "fun" than a really serious planned operation.

Any thoughts/suggestions/ideas welcome!!

Thanks
Thoughts suggestions and ideas I can do.
*Good* thoughts, suggestions and ideas, well, we'll have to see.

There's nothing obviously unworkable or wrong on the layout, though it's quite ambitious in some respects.
The thing that stands out for me is the sheer amount of storage/siding/platform space in comparison to the running lines, indeed line.
The poor trains will be waiting ages to get to "have a go", especially as both "wing" stations need possession of the main line to shunt.

I would suggest the minimum you should be looking for is two controllers, and a track plan which allows (at the least) one train to loop while another shunts.
Otherwise you are going to have a lot of static stock.

As the space is drawn getting more room for the running line or lines is not a trivial problem.

Is there any possibility of bridging the two wings of the oval to set up a much larger circuit, single or double?

Or widening just the ends of the wing pieces to allow loops as in a dog-bone layout, the long single circuit appearing as double-track through the main central board. That could have two or three trains running comfortably with automatic block working, until a station is ready for a train to be "brought in".

Other thoughts would hang on introducing two levels, with an unencumbered main-line, probably double, probably high-level fed by a line, one for each of the wing stations configured as termini. Or one wing having two simple termini, one high-level and one low-level, the other wing and the centre of the main board providing plenty of storage and marshalling space, the running track being at mid-level.

Ideas, ideas I can do. Sorting them against what might be wanted, that's another thing entirely

Best wishes, Chris.
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."
Admin4
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Re: Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by Admin4 »

Welcome to the forum :D

i would also suggest joining up the wings if possible, being able to sit in the middle while the trains run around is a much better experience

it will also make it easier to reach everything on the layout which is more important then you would think

either way good luck & make sure you keep us updated
yetiman12
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Re: Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by yetiman12 »

Thanks both for the welcome, and the feedback!!!

It has certainly got me thinking thats for sure. Other than a brief whizz round with a tape measure to get the basics to feed into SCARM i havne't really had chance to do a proper survey of the loft space yet. THe hatch is right on the very edge of the "square" of joists that the 2 wings would fix to, so doing full circuit would mean headbutting the track as you climb in the loft. There may be scope to go on the roof side of the joist rather than the inner side, so next visit up the hatch will test that out!!

The more i think about it having a large station in the middle with just a single line running is almost comical really. The dogbone idea is a good one. again i need to do a bit of measuring but it may be possible on the right hand side as due to the angle of the roof storage is pretty limited in that corner anyway.

I'm working on a list of scenarios i want to try and be able to run, based on stock i have. I'll post it in a bit

Thanks again!
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Emettman
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Re: Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by Emettman »

yetiman12 wrote:
I'm working on a list of scenarios i want to try and be able to run, based on stock i have. I'll post it in a bit

Thanks again!
Sounds good.
I'll look forward to seeing what emerges.
I think roughly fifty sheets of paper (in the old world) should be used up to save making false starts on the real layout.
It's so much less costly to do them virtually.

Chris.
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."
yetiman12
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Re: Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by yetiman12 »

I have done some more measuring and logistics of joining the two wings is a non starter. I have done some rethinking around the theme however. The preserved line is a must as it gives opportunity to use old station/shed carboard kits, and also have my steam / 1st generation diesels out.

I want to be able to get as much of the stock/themes that i have out as possible rather than have "offline" fiddle yards and lots of arms from the sky!

As such there is going to be an awful lot of "modellers licence" used on this layout!

On the preserved side we have a class 40 in BR green, a red Western, a BR blue Deltic and a BR green 03 shunter. Accompanied by a LMS 2-8-0, a Britannia, an A4, and a selection of smaller tank engines.

The terminus station in the middle has been scaled back somewhat to give a couple of bays plus a through platform. This should accomodate a RES liveried 47+ parcels, and a 37/47 intercity & mk2/3 setup for "fast passenger" service. A shortened (5 coach) HST should just fit into the first bay.

The TMD and Engineers yard allow for a selection of buildings/detail. A departmental 31 with crane/wagons etc should add another interesting touch on the scenery around. Ballast virtual quarry

Trying to decide on what freight theme to agree on was not given much results, so settled with a carriage & wagon works, that would allow pretty much anything, old and new to be stabled in there. I'm imagining some overhead cranes, sheds (old and new) plus outside buildings/lowloaders/vehicles etc. I am still trying to work out how to maybe do a bit of shunting without impacting anything on the main circuit though.Have a 56, 58 and 60 which should cover a selection of duties in this area bringing "stock" in and out.

The small terminus allows for the railcars to be held and with the Fueling station would give opportunity to store. Currently have a 142, 150, 156 and 158 (plus a BR Green 110)

The pointwork here is a bit of a challenge as i wanted to be able to get some carriage storage for feeding into the "Redcroft Road" station, but the crossover should facilitate this. The change to this area should allow for a selection of different shunting options, as well as accomodating a decent rake.

At least 1 additional controller is going to be needed to facilitate the shunting on either the two wings. I am hoping to rig up through a simple toggle switch to serve both wings. Would that work?!

Any thoughts in general?!! This is going to be a DC layout, and I think it will need quite a few isolator sections. Keeping it simply electronically, any suggestions on the easiest way to do this? Hornby section?

It is going to be quite optimistic, but i want it to be something fun and enjoyable to have a tinker with and see what kind of scenarios come up!!
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Emettman
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Re: Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by Emettman »

Yetiman, that, even at a glance looks and feels something much more balanced and workable. If I may, I'll call that progress.

"Any thoughts in general?!!"

A couple of questions and a suggestion or two to put.

On shunting the carriage works: it's going to cost a couple of small sidings (those pointing north at the north end of the west wing) but there is is a possibility.

Take a line from just before the tree of points on the west wing station and bring it round parallel with the running line curve, re-joining the running line to the right of the point leading to the terminus and sidings. A shallow point, possibly a Y, seems indicated.

This would provide an alternate route for the running line when it is desired to shunt the carriage works: the main, inner line then provides the headshunt but still leaves an oval. When it's the west wing station is to be shunted the outer loop is the headshunt, and the original line takes the running trains.

The two headshunts for the wing stations certainly help, but I wonder if they are long enough given the length of the stations they are serving. This especially on the left, the Mersey vally railway.
It would be a trade-off on train length to set the stations back a little and thus increase the effective length of the headshunt, but a headshunt that isn't long enough is likely to be quite frustrating.

In each of the stations near their north ends there is a pair of points for which I can't clearly see their function, since they only produce very short loops.
On the left I'd suggest they'd be better placed just south of the wording "Leighton street", providing a run-round for that innermost platform, and a run-round and better siding access for the Moston Lane works (you could also snaffle that fifth siding from the run-round loop pair of points. Model the existing connection as disconnected and derelict?)
At Redcroft Road It would seem that the crossover points would get more use if pushed south to form a conventional loco release, or simply omitted if this is not required.

On sectioning, and two controllers, yes, it would be possible to have one allocated to the main line, and the section switches required would be three double pole double throw centre-off, plus single on/off switches for any isolation requirements beyond that which the point-setting would provide.

The sections to be switchable would be the arrival,departure and headshunt for the two wing stations, so that the mainline controller could pick up or deliver trains while maintaining continuity with the oval.
If the carriage works acquires a headshunt this could be treated similarly to the wing stations.

Alternately, use the same DPDT switches so that either controller can have any section: I only make that six, including a separate section for the turntable.
Seven if the west station is split in two, so that trains can arrive and depart from the left-hand side of the station while separate shunting is taking place in the Moston Lane half.
Every section switched to "off" except when in use would mimic "signals always at red except when cleared for traffic."

My thoughts, anyway. Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."
Mike Parkes
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Re: Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by Mike Parkes »

I would suggest you curve the Engineers siding to run parallel to the Carriage and wagon works sidings so that the turntable can be accessed by a point off the bottom of the carriage siidings rather than direct from the main line.
jon_1066
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Re: Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by jon_1066 »

I think you need to remove more track. Don't be tempted to fill every inch available. Also many short sidings leads to a multitude of points that reduce storage space and cost money.

eg could you move the turntable to form the end of the run around loop in your preserved station (since it isn't needed in a TMD)
Your preserved station doesn't need three platform faces - one is sufficient. You could then remove the other platform and create some room for scenery.
The kick back sidings from the Leighton Street will foul the running line and are too short to be very useful. They and the Morston Lane Works also mean you lose a potential long siding so I would scrap both of those since they actually reduce the amount of stock you can store on the layout.
I would consider taking out the second platform in Redcroft Road
The top station and points could go. This would give you space for some buildings to act as a back drop for the layout or some longer sidings.
If you make a connection between the two side arms without using the continuous run you can have two trains running at the same time

eg
End to End track.jpg
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jon_1066
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Re: Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by jon_1066 »

Here's another alternative.
End to End track v5.jpg
End to End track v5.jpg (110.37 KiB) Viewed 3176 times
It give the impression of a busier terminus in the middle by having two tracks. Plenty of operations on a layout like that but also a little more room for scenery.
yetiman12
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Re: Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by yetiman12 »

It has been a very long time since i had chance to progress much, but the idea came last week to make a fundamental change to the layout. By extending the loop to run round the edge of the loft entirely it reduces the "depth" of the main board by nearly a foot which is easier to reach over.

This is the new plan!

The theme is a fictional location on the edge of the Peak Distict (i live in South West Manchester and spent a lot of time in the Peaks).

The main focus would be a small quarry with loading/shunting facilities. Behind this is a fiddle yard for making up trains, with enter and exit via a tunnel into limestone cliffs at either end.

An island station with DMU siding would sit in front of the quarry along with a small maintenance & fuel shed for the engines operating the stone trains. At the very front is an engineering yard for ballast train / tamper etc. This then gives space on the right for a small village/diorama etc

To the right is the main station. My idea here is is that it would act as a junction station with terminus for transpennine express services - so railcars and the odd HST, but then a through line for local services, mail trains, diverted passenger services etc.

the bottom loop is where the loft hatch opens, so a removal section there would allow access, then on the left is the "preserved" line. The actual line would be through the tunnel into the fiddle yard, so a selection of shunting movements would pull stock in and out. A run around track allows engines to be moved without impacting any other operation.

They then have access to the main line for specials etc.

Any ideas or suggestions welcome!!!

It is going to be more fun than realistic, but should allow pretty much any kind of train to be run as a "through train" without being too out of keeping with a vague sense of reality!!!

Thanks
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pointstaken
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Re: Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by pointstaken »

My own impression is that Jon_1066 layout is much better in that it does not look over crowded with track unlike your first scenario. You need to consider your ability to access all parts of the layout for maintenance and or derailments etc. Don't fill up every possible space, bearing in mind this is a loft with plenty of places for head bashing.

Dennis
I know nothing, but much I believe
yetiman12
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Re: Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by yetiman12 »

Something that i can't work out how to show well on the SCARM software is how to draw in scenery and tunnels! Where it says "Quarry" that is going to be a limestone face going the full width across with a tunnel at either end. The fiddle yard is "out of view".

That hopefully explains it a bit better!! So the are only a few tracks on display!
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D605Eagle
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Re: Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by D605Eagle »

How did you put the platforms into scarm? I've not sussed that one out yet
jon_1066
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Re: Return to modelling after 20 year break

Post by jon_1066 »

They are Hornby parts under the Hornby OO track library
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