Heljan commissioned to do O for Hattons.

[Bigmet]

It must be assumed that Hattons are very happy with sourcing exclusives from Heljan, because they are at it again I see, even bigger time than the Beyer Garratt: O gauge Gresley pacifics and coaches. Well, who's for their own ECML in the back garden?

[Streaks and Teaks]

I bet Golden age models arnt to happy about this.

[Metadyneman]

It must be assumed that Hattons are very happy with sourcing exclusives from Heljan, because they are at it again I see, even bigger time than the Beyer Garratt: O gauge Gresley pacifics and coaches. Well, who's for their own ECML in the back garden?

Nice... but no thanks

[Bigmet]

And that 'no thanks' goes to the heart of what I am wondering, what size is the market for these? O gauge 'shunting planks' with a couple of small locos are probably the largest indoor layout possibility for most in the UK. Going outdoors the usual thing among those UK O gaugers who are not Pete Waterman, that want a decent length of run on which a train out on the main line will look good. That's a real minority sport.

The fact that Hattons are making this big push into O gauge confirms something that I have been suspecting for a while, there's no more real growth to be expected from OO in the UK. Quite simply, pretty much every really popular and therefore rapid volume sale item (locos, coaches or wagons) has a model; the air-smoothed MN from Hornby probably the last such item on which a run of rapid sell-outs from a prolonged series of releases covering the variations, liveries and names can be confidently expected.

That isn't to say there is nothing left in subjects that will produce sufficient sales for a decent profit if a good RTR model is offered; but these are not the reliable cash cows that can be endlessly churned to produce sales year after year without fail.

[Metadyneman]

The other aspect of course is the old chestnut of pricing. We all enjoyed a brief period in the early "naughties" of cheap, well detailed stuff in OO and now the prices are approaching something a little more like phone numbers for the same stuff, it has slowed the market down an awful lot. O gauge stuff on the other hand, has always had a reputation of being very expensive and for the price of 3 or 4 OO gauge locos you will only get 1 in O so I don't see that this is a particularly good move by Hattons at all!

[Campaigner]

In introducing RTR O gauge Heljan have opened up the O gauge market to many, self included. Yes they are expensive and in most cases not totally accurate, but have you seen the price of O gauge kits? bearing in mind you still have to build it, paint it and in most cases buy the motors and wheel sets extra.
I love an O gauge A4 but until I've seen a sample I won't be ordering one.

[Bigmet]

And I feel that is a major point, Heljan and others have 'opened up the O gauge market' with decent RTR product that costs no more - and often less - than kits, that as Campaigner mentions demand yet more to build and finish. I think there is less retailer risk too as compared to OO, as a far greater proportion of purchasers simply won't run their O gauge. That may change as ownership expands, but when you consider that for many a club is a necessity for a chance to operate OO; and most clubs don't have an O gauge layout, or even a test track...

[Emettman]

A Gresley Pacific and a pair of coaches, OK, maybe three, feels like a reproduction on a larger scale of the "not a good place to start" train set in OO

Likely minimum radius curves, appearance on minimum radius curves, length and cost of "proper" train...
But maybe a small GWR prairie and a "B" set isn't iconic enough.

Or maybe there are more prospective wealthy landscape engineers out there than seems likely...
...that haven't already gone out there.

[whynot]

I suppose it hinges on how well Hattons have done their research. I'm not sure that "price" is a real issue. For many (most?) serious railway modellers it is already clearly a money no object hobby - especially those who collect locos. There are those in this parish who are both able and willing to spend £00s even £000s on their hobby- if one has say 25 x 00 locos, then why not 10 x 0 scale? Certainly I'd rather have the latter - or indeed even 2 and a 6' micro layout! When a very modest start-from-scratch layout in the smaller scales requires upwards of £500, the market is already very small.

And as that market gets ever older (and no I don't have evidence for that, but Hattons may well do), bigger will be better! That said, do those who buy mainline 0 scale locos actually have layouts at all or simply display cabinets?

With my current minimal layout relying on recycled timber, existing scenics, two locos that I've had for over 5 years, an ancient DC controller and mainly 2nd hand track costing "new spend" of maybe a ton, I am not in their sights. But then if I had a grand to spend on a hobby then it would not be this one.

[b308]

I agree Dave, and another thing is that it won't be produced in numbers like OO/HO or N so the price isn't really relevant.

Many people will pay for quality and "rareness" so I've no doubt they will sell them.

Comparing sales of O standard gauge RTR with OO/HO or N RTR is like comparing chalk and cheese, it would be better compared with narrow gauge and many people will pay a premium in NG as well.