Heljan class 15

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GeraldH
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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby GeraldH » Mon May 02, 2016 11:47 am

Has anyone had a Class 15 motor burn out yet and had to replace it? Mine has just gone up in smoke :( . There are reports of similar issues on other forums and spare motors are not currently available. Perhaps someone has found another suitable motor?
Gerald H - BNR Correspondent :)

My layout: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... hp?t=28854

Bigmet
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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby Bigmet » Mon May 02, 2016 12:46 pm

I believe it is the same external dimensions as the motor used in the O2 and B-G. Whether the same inside, another and different question! Personally, I'd go a looking for a Mashima, Buhler etc. equivalent once I had the can dimensions. Although both my 15s and the O2 have been reliable so far, it's always good to try an alternative, as a future sparing possibility.

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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby GeraldH » Tue May 03, 2016 9:32 am

It seems that the Class 15 and the once infamous Class 17 share the same motor. According to another forum, the Mashima 1024 might be a good fit and is hopefully a bit more robust. Removing the flywheels non-destructively and getting them onto the new motor might be a bit tricky. Hopefully my GW Models worm puller will assist.

When I get round to it, I will report back as there appears to be a few people with this problem.
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My layout: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... hp?t=28854

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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby Bigmet » Tue May 03, 2016 12:24 pm

That will be very much welcomed here Gerald, as further examples of the O2 are on my future purchase list.

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GeraldH
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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby GeraldH » Sun May 15, 2016 11:34 am

I've now removed the body of the Class 15 and tried to run the loco again. It was running very slowly and smoke appeared to be coming from, or under, the circuit board. After a few seconds the loco stopped running completely. I removed the motor and connected it directly to a controller and it started running - although it did seem to get very warm fairly quickly.

Checking the circuit board more closely, it seems that one of the resistors is blackening and there appears to be no voltage coming through the PCB to the motor terminals. The resistor seems to be 20 ohms (red black black silver). One of the resistors terminals is so long that it is touching the chassis block underneath the PCB. I guess that I could try replacing the resistor, but I'm not sure what wattage I need? As these motors have a reputation, it might be wise to replace both, although my worm puller is not able to get in behind the flywheels, so I'm not sure how I can get these off for re-use. I'm beginning to think I should keep hold of my old Hormby Ringfield diesels as they were nice and simple :) .
Gerald H - BNR Correspondent :)

My layout: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... hp?t=28854

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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby GWR_fan » Sun May 15, 2016 9:41 pm

Gerald,
can you bypass the circuit board and run power directly from the track to the motor?

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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby GWR_fan » Sun May 15, 2016 9:44 pm

This I believe was the suggested alternative for the B-G.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/381495095739 ... EBIDX%3AIT

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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby GWR_fan » Mon May 16, 2016 2:07 am

Scroll halfway down the linked to page for motor replacement.

http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/model_omwb114.html

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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby GWR_fan » Mon May 16, 2016 3:31 am

This is a worm gear puller that I purchased. I have not used in anger but I feel it will be ideal to remove a flywheel. Made by Walkera and readily available on evilbay. It was originally designed to pull the worm drive gear on brushless motors on model helicopters. It comes with a variety of splindle/mandrel sizes to suit most common motor shaft diameters.
Attachments
walka.JPG
Gear puller
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walkc.JPG
Gear puller
walkc.JPG (65.59 KiB) Viewed 1188 times
walkb.JPG
Gear puller
walkb.JPG (56.41 KiB) Viewed 1188 times

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GeraldH
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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby GeraldH » Mon May 16, 2016 7:53 pm

GWR_fan wrote:Scroll halfway down the linked to page for motor replacement.

http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/model_omwb114.html


Thank you GWR_fan. I spotted that one too :). It seems from my measurements and a post on another forum that the Mashima 1024 will fit more or less perfectly, so I can use the existing motor mount. Just in case anyone needs to know, the existing motor is: 12mm in diameter, 30mm long and the length from the end of one spindle to the other is 43.4mm. The outer ends of the flywheels are 52.4mm apart.

GWR_fan wrote:This is a worm gear puller that I purchased. I have not used in anger but I feel it will be ideal to remove a flywheel. Made by Walkera and readily available on evilbay. It was originally designed to pull the worm drive gear on brushless motors on model helicopters. It comes with a variety of splindle/mandrel sizes to suit most common motor shaft diameters.


That puller looks promising and I think I will pick one up, as they're only about £7-8.

I've found a pack of 10 1/2 watt 20 ohm resistors, so I think I'll grab those too. From other postings and pictures, I'm guessing that the one that died is about 1/2 watt? I don't have the electrical knowledge to calculate the required wattage, but I'll give it a go anyway :).
Gerald H - BNR Correspondent :)

My layout: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... hp?t=28854

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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby GWR_fan » Tue May 31, 2016 7:12 am

This is the micro motor referenced in a previous posting.
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micro motor
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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby GWR_fan » Tue May 31, 2016 7:17 am

Unable to edit previous posting.

total length 49 mm
motor body length 22 mm
motor body 13 mm X 17 mm

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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby GWR_fan » Tue May 31, 2016 8:11 am

The worm on the Mitsumi motor is extremely difficult to remove. The gear puller referenced is next to useless as the supposed 1.5 mm mandrel is oversize (larger than the motor shaft).

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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby GeraldH » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:45 pm

My new resistors have arrived. They have a blue body, rather than the green of the Heljan originals, they are a little larger and have a gold band instead of silver. As I far as I know, this is an acceptable replacement. I have now soldered in a new resistor to replace the burnt out Heljan one and reconnected the motor. The loco now runs, but slowly as it did before it started smoking and gave up the ghost. The new resistor has become incredibly hot though - hot enough to burn my finger when I touched it! So something is clearly still wrong. I guess that it's the motor that is causing the resistor to overheat [?], but I'm no electronics expert. Perhaps it is now time to try and fit a new Mashima motor.
Gerald H - BNR Correspondent :)

My layout: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... hp?t=28854

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Bufferstop
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Re: Heljan class 15

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:20 pm

Going on a) the motor running slow, b) the resistor getting hot, I would take an educated guess that one winding in the motor is open circuit.
If replacing the motor is inevitable and the replacement is to hand, would it be possible to get either a fine metal saw blade or a slitting disk between the flywheel and the motor casing. It might prove hard work but cutting the flywheels off and driving out the remnant of the shaft using a punch may be the best option.
Or you could try heating the flywheels with a gas flame as the expansion coefficient of brass is higher than that of steel, but it's a job that needs to be done in a workshop. Wielding a blow torch and tugging at lumps of hot brass isn't a kitchen table job. Mind you when I need a blow torch I go in the kitchen and borrow the dinky little one that my wife used in the days when we we still allowed a crème brûlée.
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