LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

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Bigmet
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Bigmet » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:36 pm

The standard LMS Toton-Brent coal tains were 85 vehicles; that was largely wooden PO wagons typically of nominal 10-12 ton capacity, roughly 1500 ton gross train load. The Garratts were built equivalent to two Midland 0-6-0s, and their well known deficiencies meant that in practise a Stanier 8F could do the same work on less coal and water.

The real weakness of the Garratts was the insistence by Derby that their standard axleboxes be used, and their notions of valve events. The axleboxes of a steam loco have to carry not only the dead weight of the loco, but they are the engine bearings too and have to handle the piston thrusts. Make the bearing surface too small for the applied load and it overheats; so while the big Beyer-Peacock designed boiler could produce much more steam per engine unit than anything Derby could design, and thus potentially more power in the engine, any attempt to use this extra power quickly wore out the axleboxes. So what should have been a lot more powerful could not be run at full output or it quickly wore itself out. Secondly, because the valve events were poor the steam was not used efficiently, so the work actually done was costing more in coal and water then it should. There's a third problem as well with the frequent stops of the coal hauls: fireboxes burn coal directly in proportion to grate area with the loco at rest: the stopped 8F burning roughly two thirds what the Garratt did. When it is remembered that fully half the end to end journey time was taken up standing, that begins to mount up too...

Had Derby provided a capability spec left Beyer-Peacock alone to do the job to their habitual standards they probably would have delivered a 10F...

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Stufiley
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Stufiley » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:04 pm

After my others halves initial shock when I told her I had ordered one of these for £200, she calmed down when I told her that I had a while to save up for it. I really can't wait for it to arrive.
£200 does seem a lot of money for one loco but when you consider what a fantastic loco this will be, size alone it will be impressive, the price then is very reasonable. Get your orders in to avoid the price rise.
The kit built Garratts on Ebay are much more expensive and I have seen the old Rosebud/Airfix Garrets go for over £100.
Well done Hattons for taking a gamble on this whole range of locos. I hope they sell well. I know why you have done the LMS versions but any chance of doing the LNER Garratt if these sell well?
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bike2steam
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby bike2steam » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:38 pm

£200 eh, and when is it due to be released - lets have a sweepstake on what the final price will be when it does show up :D

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bike2steam
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby bike2steam » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:41 pm

For a start I'll start with £350 - grrr no edit button again!!!!

Bigmet
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Bigmet » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:07 pm

bike2steam wrote:£200 eh, and when is it due to be released - lets have a sweepstake on what the final price will be when it does show up :D

The price is to be £199 for everyone who orders before the cut off date quoted. For sure it could be a lot more in 18 months to 2 years for those who don't take up the no obligation to purchase option. What need for a sweepstake when there is a no risk fixed price option?

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83A Models
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby 83A Models » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:23 pm

Bigmet wrote:
bike2steam wrote:£200 eh, and when is it due to be released - lets have a sweepstake on what the final price will be when it does show up :D

The price is to be £199 for everyone who orders before the cut off date quoted. For sure it could be a lot more in 18 months to 2 years for those who don't take up the no obligation to purchase option. What need for a sweepstake when there is a no risk fixed price option?


***Bigmet***

Quite agree no need for sweepstake, if you order before the cut off date you are covered at £199.00, now if you decide you no longer want it when Hattons contact you, no one can say what price Hattons will sell it on for, but they seem they can shift on any pre-orders that are not wanted.

Regards,
Mike & Helen
Maybach Roar - Music to your ears.

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D605Eagle
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby D605Eagle » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:51 pm

Am I right that the only revolving bunker version in BR livery is weathered?

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Free_at_last
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Free_at_last » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:55 pm

No.
Pete.
Gauge is not spelt guage. Remember to put another "m" in remeber. Manufacturers has two "r"s in.
When you buy something, you have bought it, not brought it.
Before you post, are you really LOL and do you NEED to tell us?

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Free_at_last
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Free_at_last » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:57 pm

Damn! No edit...

4 of them are advertised as being "pristine"
Pete.
Gauge is not spelt guage. Remember to put another "m" in remeber. Manufacturers has two "r"s in.
When you buy something, you have bought it, not brought it.
Before you post, are you really LOL and do you NEED to tell us?

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D605Eagle
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby D605Eagle » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:11 pm

Haha! No mention of the revolving bunker was worrying me, but it seems they kept these until the end? I'm not a fan of weathered locos at the best of time, but Heljans looks horrible.

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bike2steam
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby bike2steam » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:17 pm

83A Models wrote:
Bigmet wrote:
bike2steam wrote:£200 eh, and when is it due to be released - lets have a sweepstake on what the final price will be when it does show up :D

The price is to be £199 for everyone who orders before the cut off date quoted. For sure it could be a lot more in 18 months to 2 years for those who don't take up the no obligation to purchase option. What need for a sweepstake when there is a no risk fixed price option?


***Bigmet***

Quite agree no need for sweepstake, if you order before the cut off date you are covered at £199.00, now if you decide you no longer want it when Hattons contact you, no one can say what price Hattons will sell it on for, but they seem they can shift on any pre-orders that are not wanted.

Regards,
Mike & Helen


We shall see, I find it hard to believe that any business can make such a bold decision in this financial climate, there must be some get out clause somewhere, I hope you all have good memories.

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83A Models
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby 83A Models » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:22 am

***Taken from Hattons Website***

Ref Hattons/Heljan LMS/BR Beyer Garratt

Hattons guaranteed pre-order price, orderable now
Is this item actually in stock? No
On order.Latest estimated arrival date: Unknown
Normal UK postage for 1 of this item: £4 (Postage Rates)
for £199

Regards,
Mike & Helen
Maybach Roar - Music to your ears.

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bike2steam
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby bike2steam » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:52 am

A good deal everyone should take advantage of, but I still feel Hattons will live to regret. I still stand by what I originally said, and wonder what the real price will be on release regardless of Hattons seemingly rash decision. Perhaps my experiences in business have made me a big cynic.

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PeterH
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby PeterH » Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:27 am

I've just placed my order for one. I had never really wanted one before, but I feel that it is such a substancial bit of kit that I shan't regret it! I ordered the LMS 7983 with revolving bunker. I think I need to buy quite a few more wagons. Thank God for Hattons and their 'Bargain Packs'!
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Phipps
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Phipps » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:38 am

A great idea that seems it may have some popularity.
Must say it's not one that interests me,so my wallet can breathe easy........


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