LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

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bike2steam
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby bike2steam » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:27 am

Gronk12 wrote:See the real thing here with many examples and all in steam:



WOW, a genuine full size LMS Garratt, Graham Kelsey would be getting over excited - no just kidding, have fun, I'd be going if I hadn't already arranged to go for the week, with the caravan, to Woolacombe.

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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby bike2steam » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:30 am

Zunnan wrote:I'm not one for pre ordering before a pre production model has been seen, usually. This is a very different case though, an absolutely spectacular prototype that transcends region and era, and at £200 is an absolute steal. The fact that they worked into my most local yard (Washwood Heath) and were known to work into the collieries nearby just makes them even more desirable for me, two duly ordered! I wonder if the model will match the real thing and take 60+ minerals. I need more 7 & 8 planks and 16 tonners...

My poor wallet!


Do you have any photographic evidence of LMS garratts in colliery sidings ?? I thought they just did 'yard to yard' work, not 'trips', or 'target' work.

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poliss
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby poliss » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:15 pm

"Beyer-Garratt" locomotives are used for handling the heavy mineral traffic between the Nottinghamshire coalfields and the marshalling sidings at Cricklewood"
http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r095.html

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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Zunnan » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:51 pm

That depends on the size of the colliery and where the exchange sidings were. The coalfields here were (and still is at Daw Mill which holds the UK record for annual production) amongst the largest coal production in the country and the exchange sidings with the Midland were in the collieries. The three collieries and their remote pits fed on to the Midland line from Derby to B'ham via an LMS and subsequently BR maintained branch which had to provide power for an annual output of as much as 2 millions tonnes combined. Baddesley alone was dishing out up to 240 tons per hour! Each colliery had its own extensive exchange sidings which were linked by the Midland/LMS/BR operated branch. Usual power was 8Fs and Austin 7s, but the Garratts weren't unknown. Coal operations here were large scale, Baddesley colliery even had a Garratt industrial loco for the tramway link to the WCML, and the industrials at Nechells were designed to handle 1000 ton coal trains (the preserved Meaford No.2 is one of them).

This pic shows an ex-LMS Garratt passing Bromford heading towards Washwood Heath, at a time when the majority of coal traffic here will have originated from the Baddesley branch.

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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Bushey Troughs » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:08 pm

There's a little more about them on Wiki:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Garratt
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby bike2steam » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:52 pm

poliss wrote:"Beyer-Garratt" locomotives are used for handling the heavy mineral traffic between the Nottinghamshire coalfields and the marshalling sidings at Cricklewood"
http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r095.html


Not just Brent yard,but Toton was a 'central hub' to yards at March, York, Leeds, Sheffield, Washwood Heath, Stoke Gifford, and Westerleigh amongst others.

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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Tiddles » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:18 pm

How can They do it for that price when Bachmann have a RRP for there new EM1?
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/ ... uctId=3203

Ok I know the EM1 comes with DCC sound on board but it is a lot less complicated than the Garratt and only has one motor.

Zunnan I would be interested in more info on the Baddesley colliery Garratt industrial loco if you have any please.
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Tiddles » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:20 pm

The Bachmann HO EM1 RRP is £337 :shock:
The Baltimore and Ohio Railroad, “Linking 13 Great States With The Nation.”

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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Tiddles » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:48 pm

Why cant I edit my posts on this thread :?

My mistake it is not a B&O EM-1 but a C&O H-4.

As for pulling power on the Garratt, my HO Rivarossi EL-5 only has one centrally mounted motor plus two flywheels and it will happily pull 70 box cars.

Hattons web site says the pre-ordering is no obligation to buy. So they must be confident that they can sell the ones that where ordered but not collected.
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Zunnan » Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:53 pm

Theres some photos of it here, here and here, a bit more info can also be found here. This one has actually been preserved, although not in working order and in a hideous bogus livery. In service it carried an attractive lined blue livery, but for some reason Bressingham decided it should go brown.

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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Garethp8873 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:20 pm

Although I have seen one a many photos of these fine engines hauling PO wagons, would these have ever took vans or tanks along with their trains? I have seen one photo in LMS & LNER Garratts by R.J. Essery on p40 which shows LMS 4985 hauling a goods which includes a GWR Iron Mink two wagons away from the train. Would this be a common sight or rare occurance?

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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Zunnan » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:38 pm

This pic appears to show the presence of some vans towards the rear of the train, on this page the first two wagons are definately some sort of open sided van, probably cattle vans, and in this photo there is no question as to what it is hauling! Most of the LMS garratts weren't fitted with vacuum pipes to provide train braking, their principal work was slogging heavy unfitted mineral trains, but there is plenty of photographic evidence to show them on other unfitted freight workings.

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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Garethp8873 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:43 pm

[quote="Zunnan"][url=http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2224566]This pic[/url] appears to show the presence of some vans towards the rear of the train, on [url=http://members.optusnet.com.au/~mercurytravel/notebook/229/notebook.htm]this page[/url] the first two wagons are definately some sort of open sided van, probably cattle vans, and in [url=http://www.railphotoprints.co.uk/index/detail/11618/Garratt-Y-Elstree-1935-DCCRL123.jpg.html]this photo[/url] there is no question as to what it is hauling! Most of the LMS garratts weren't fitted with vacuum pipes to provide train braking, their principal work was slogging heavy unfitted mineral trains, but there is plenty of photographic evidence to show them on other unfitted freight workings.[/quote]

Splendid Zunnan! You are a star! :D This means I can have a mixed goods now! What normally was their haulage capacity?
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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Zunnan » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:53 pm

About 12,000lb more tractive effort than a Stanier 8F and 5,000lb more than a 9F, so basically everything you can hang off the back of it. In reality it was these two classes, the 9F in particular, which killed off the Garretts because they were more reliable and nowhere near as heavy on fuel/water.

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Re: LMS Beyer Garratt at Hattons

Postby Garethp8873 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:04 pm

How many wagons would they take sorry?

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