Baby Deltic / class 23

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Metadyneman
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby Metadyneman » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:22 pm

The blue Pullman still gets raucous laughter when it gets mentioned.... :D :D :D :D :D
A voice from the distance said unto me "Smile, things could be worse" so I smiled and lo, things did get worse!

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Phipps
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby Phipps » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:01 am

I have to say that having seen all the different classes being announced in the latest edition of Model Rail,this one stands out & "Lion" really does.I'd be tempted by a Baby Deltic for sure!

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Phipps
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby Phipps » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:24 pm

Phipps wrote:I'd be tempted by a Baby Deltic for sure!

.......except that having don my research,it transpires this never made it further North than Hitchin or the SE Midlands,so wouldn't fit in on a N.East based layout :roll:

Bigmet
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby Bigmet » Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:54 pm

They all too often didn't get the train to Hitchin at that. Outer suburban between KX and Hitchin, and the Cambridge Buffet Car Express (more usually 'The Beer Train') KX - Cambridge were typical services that they were intended for. Sadly the performance didn't match their neat looks, and they only lasted about three years before withdrawal for extensive engine rebuilding; and even following that they were not sufficiently improved to be worth multiplying beyond the original ten. As BR then found itself with rather too many type 2 diesels, (some of which were at least reliable) final withdrawal came fast, before the end of the 1960s.

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manna
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby manna » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:42 am

G'DayGents

Belive it or not but in the early days of the 'Baby Deltics' they use to work trains from KX to Skegness, wether they got back is not know?? Last one I saw working came into KX loco Christmas Eve 1970 went back to Finsbury Pk in the New Year, do'nt think it was ever used again :cry:manna
EDGWARE GN. Steam in the Suburbs

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ngresley
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby ngresley » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:03 pm

With 20/20 hindsight, it's pretty obvious that using a complex, high-stressed, high maintenance engine from the Deltic (where the maintenance costs could be justified for a small fleet because it was the only way of getting the performance needed) in a general-purpose diesel, and sticking a turbo on it to make it even more complex and high-stressed, all to get performance that could be gotten more cheaply and reliably with conventional engines, was A VERY DUMB IDEA. :evil:

English Electric were the class act of early British diesels, producing reliable, if heavy locos, by sticking with conservative technologies, except for the Deltics, which were a very special one-off and equally successful. WTF possessed them to produce the Class 23s??? :?: :?
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby Bigmet » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:57 pm

BR specification is the short answer, trying to squeeze a quart of power and a steam heating system into a pint of permitted axle load. If you look at the pilot classes you will see that the lightweight type 1 and type 2 pilot scheme locos were also the dodgy ones for reliability. (There were some dark mutterings from the private manufacturers at the time that BR used a differently calibrated weighbridge to get the Derby type 2s axle load passed by the civil engineer.) But the truth will out where durability is concerned, and of the pilot scheme type 1 and type 2 designs, by far the longest serving were the 'heavy' EE type 1, later class 20, and the Brush type 2, class 30, later re-engined to class 31. These outlived all the other pilot types by near double the lifespan, and many of the later lower power machines such as the class 33 which had the benefit of not requiring to carry steam heat provision.

A not infrequent stand in for the EE Baby Deltic in summer was the good old 'Thousand Horse' (or class 20 as it was later classified) : also made by English Electric, but a reliable beast. With very little different power output it could do the traction job, but didn't have steam heat for winter operation. Weighed about the same as the class 23.

Even after the rebuild, they weren't really trusted, and tended to run in multiple on freight and civil engineering trains, rather than on what they were designed to do, loco hauled suburban service passenger turns. That was operated almost entirely by Brush type 2s (class 30) and the re-engined class 31s of which there were more than enough available by that stage. By the mid 1960s BR had a surfeit of type 2 diesels of too many classes, for which freight work in particular was fast drying up. The rebuilt type 23 were I think pretty much run until they needed a major repair or main works overhaul, and at that point were withdrawn from service, as simply not economically worth continuing with.

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Campaigner
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby Campaigner » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:30 pm

I've just been looking on the Heljan website and they claim this model is now available, however the photo doesn't exactly help prove this and it claims they've sold through. Could be though that they have been dispatched. ROS website shows them as "coming soon"

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DrStroganoff
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby DrStroganoff » Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:13 am

They were supposed to be on the shelves the first week of June... However Modelfair's most recent newsletter states they are now due in July. Not too long now. :)

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Phipps
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby Phipps » Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:11 am

It'll be good when this get's finished & they achieve their goal
http://www.thebabydelticproject.co.uk/#
Might help to sell a few 00 gauge versions

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kennyGWSR
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby kennyGWSR » Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:21 am

Thats one reason why i will be getting one! :mrgreen:
60089 Felstead :)
Layout: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=33128
Rail photos: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=28381

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D605Eagle
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby D605Eagle » Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:26 pm

Any news on these? I check rails out and they aint even got a price on them yet, which is odd as most other pre order stuff has.

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gdaysydney
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby gdaysydney » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:46 am

D605Eagle wrote:Any news on these? I check rails out and they aint even got a price on them yet, which is odd as most other pre order stuff has.


Accoding to the Hatton's website its now due in early September - so only a few weeks away 8)

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Essex2Visuvesi
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby Essex2Visuvesi » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:47 am

Excellent news!

Son will be pleased :)
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Bigmet
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Re: Baby Deltic / class 23

Postby Bigmet » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:23 am

All this non-appearance is just like the real thing. When in service there was often a Baby Deltic due along, but quite often they didn't make it at the expected time...


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