Heljan class 17 motor

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D605Eagle
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Heljan class 17 motor

Postby D605Eagle » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:58 pm

I've just bought a new old stock class 17 from the first production run. I knew about the issues the first run had with their motors so expected it to have problems. However it actually runs well except the motor is very loud. I've took the motor out and the problem is its wildly out of balance. Does anybody know of a replacement motor that will fit that I can replace it with?

Bigmet
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Re: Heljan class 17 motor

Postby Bigmet » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:51 pm

Simplest is potentially to contact Gaugemaster, as they are now Heljan's agents for parts supply. Be interesting to know if they have them available.

Not had to have one of these out yet for replacement, so don't even know the dimensions...

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D605Eagle
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Re: Heljan class 17 motor

Postby D605Eagle » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:08 pm

Bigmet wrote:Simplest is potentially to contact Gaugemaster, as they are now Heljan's agents for parts supply. Be interesting to know if they have them available.

Not had to have one of these out yet for replacement, so don't even know the dimensions...

I think it's the same motor that in the class 15s and 16s. IIRC the class 17 was the first time that particular motor was used and there was problems with the first batch that was sorted on the later production runs.

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GeraldH
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Re: Heljan class 17 motor

Postby GeraldH » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:13 am

https://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt ... nt-motors/

Removal of the flywheel is reputedly extremely difficult and so it might be worth paying the extra to have the retailer do it.

Gaugemaster might also have them, although navigating their Heljan Spares website requires a PhD :) .
Gerald H - BNR Correspondent :)

My layout: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... hp?t=28854

Bigmet
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Re: Heljan class 17 motor

Postby Bigmet » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:39 am

D605Eagle wrote:... I think it's the same motor that in the class 15s and 16s. IIRC the class 17 was the first time that particular motor was used and there was problems with the first batch that was sorted on the later production runs.

And to all external appearances, the same motor also in the large steam models; Beyer-Garratt, O2, 47xx. (There were significant problems reported with this motor in the Beyer-Garratt also. I gave my 2 examples each of both class 15 and O2 extended running as a result, and these have all held up perfectly well, as well as the later class 16; and reports of the 47xx appear free of motor troubles too, so hopefully Heljan now have a good supply of this motor design.)

GeraldH wrote:Removal of the flywheel is reputedly extremely difficult ...

Too right. I have had to remove and replace several flywheels on the Chinese sourced products including Heljan's; and this required purchase of a new and better puller, as the one that had worked without fail pulling worms off XO4 motors gave up on the first attempt on Chinese product!

I would be inclined to try for factory spares for the specific model as a result.

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D605Eagle
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Re: Heljan class 17 motor

Postby D605Eagle » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:11 pm

I have a good quality gear puller, but saying that I think one of the flywheel's might be partially responsible for the balance issues. I was looking at some rather nice very small 5 pole skew wound motors. I was toying with the idea of buying a couple and powering each bogie individually. Might work well going by other twin motor setups I've made in the past.

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Forfarian
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Re: Heljan class 17 motor

Postby Forfarian » Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:05 am

I bought two motors from Oliviers, just in case!
I made a puller from two pieces of flat bar and some screwed rod and using an off cut from a solenoid point motor pin managed to extract the fly wheels. Not an easy job which occasionally leads to expletives, However I found the main problem with the poor running was the tightness of the plastic housing around the two worm drives. I put a small shim between the two housing halves still allowing the clip holding them together to fit correctly, if I remember correctly I think it was a about the thickness of 80 gsm paper, the 17 is still running well and it seems to be getting better with use.
Tim
aka Forfarian

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D605Eagle
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Re: Heljan class 17 motor

Postby D605Eagle » Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:04 pm

GeraldH wrote:https://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/heljan-replacement-motors/


Some massive profiteering going on by somebody in the supply chain there!

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GeraldH
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Re: Heljan class 17 motor

Postby GeraldH » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:35 am

D605Eagle wrote:
GeraldH wrote:https://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/heljan-replacement-motors/


Some massive profiteering going on by somebody in the supply chain there!


Perhaps someone can discover the origin of these motors and save us all some money? :)
Gerald H - BNR Correspondent :)

My layout: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... hp?t=28854

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D605Eagle
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Re: Heljan class 17 motor

Postby D605Eagle » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:37 pm

GeraldH wrote:
D605Eagle wrote:
GeraldH wrote:https://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/heljan-replacement-motors/


Some massive profiteering going on by somebody in the supply chain there!


Perhaps someone can discover the origin of these motors and save us all some money? :)

Having looked quite extensively into Chinese motor manufacturers I expect heljan ordered the specific size especially, (probably for less than $1 each) as they don't appear to be a standard size. Most of the manufactures will make anything you want as long as you order 1000 or more.
I've just bought some Minebea 6pole 10mm x 10mm cube motors and a brass sleave so I can fit the flywheels from the heljan motor to them. They are 6 volt so I'll be wiring them in series. The whole lot cost less than £5. Should be interesting to see how well they work.


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