GUV

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pete12345
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GUV

Postby pete12345 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:25 pm

Dad came round today. He'd found some of his old railway bits which, having gone to n-gauge, he had no use for. Among them was a GUV in BR maroon by Lima along with a half repainted Triang sleeping car!

So what do I use a GUV for? I'm thinking it should be attached to passenger trains as tail traffic for newspapers/parcels/milk churns, or perhaps with a BG and a few scruffy-looking 4-wheeled vans as a dedicated train. I'm mixing eras slightly with a mixture of GWR, gresley and BR stock, but I'm not overly concerned as long as it looks right to my eyes.
Once an engine attached to a train, was afraid of a few drops of rain...

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flying scotsman123
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Re: GUV

Postby flying scotsman123 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:50 pm

Yep, pretty much exactly as you've described!
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pete12345
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Re: GUV

Postby pete12345 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:23 pm

So can I run these as part of an ordinary goods train- as in with a mixture of fitted and unfitted vans and a goods brake at the rear? I guess it would be advantageous to have the GUV in the fitted head, but not strictly necessary? I could have some parcels tail traffic collected from various trains at Warwick or Leicester and run down the line to Coventry as a dedicated train.
Once an engine attached to a train, was afraid of a few drops of rain...

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flying scotsman123
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Re: GUV

Postby flying scotsman123 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:15 pm

pete12345 wrote:So can I run these as part of an ordinary goods train- as in with a mixture of fitted and unfitted vans and a goods brake at the rear? I guess it would be advantageous to have the GUV in the fitted head, but not strictly necessary? I could have some parcels tail traffic collected from various trains at Warwick or Leicester and run down the line to Coventry as a dedicated train.


I think it would be more likely for the parcels traffic to be tacked on to a passenger train than goods, hence the existence of "XP" rated vans,e.g. fruit vans, Siphons etc on the GWR which would be fully fitted, sometimes even with a steam heat through pipe, and could also be added. If it were to not be a passenger train, I'd only expect to see GUVs in with BGs, CCTs and other XP rated vans, rather than your usual pick-up goods. But no doubt someone will be along with a picture soon to prove me wrong! :)
Last edited by flying scotsman123 on Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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flying scotsman123
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Re: GUV

Postby flying scotsman123 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:16 pm

Deleted....
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pete12345
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Re: GUV

Postby pete12345 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:21 pm

(Duplicated. Disregard)
Last edited by pete12345 on Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pete12345
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Re: GUV

Postby pete12345 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:23 pm

flying scotsman123 wrote:I think it would be more likely for the parcels traffic to be tacked on to a passenger train than goods, hence the existence of "XP" rated vans,e.g. fruit vans, Siphons etc on the GWR which would be fully fitted, sometimes even with a steam heat through pipe, and could also be added. If it were to not be a passenger train, I'd only expect to see GUVs in with BGs, CCTs and other XP rated vans, rather than your usual pick-up goods. But no doubt someone will be along with a picture soon to prove me wrong! :)

That makes more sense. The idea of a coach in the middle of a goods train did seem a bit odd- though as you say, there's an example for everything. You'd need something for the guard to ride in at least- a BG or even a BSK? The latter giving a few cheap seats for hardy (or hard up) travellers!
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flying scotsman123
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Re: GUV

Postby flying scotsman123 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:38 pm

pete12345 wrote:
flying scotsman123 wrote:I think it would be more likely for the parcels traffic to be tacked on to a passenger train than goods, hence the existence of "XP" rated vans,e.g. fruit vans, Siphons etc on the GWR which would be fully fitted, sometimes even with a steam heat through pipe, and could also be added. If it were to not be a passenger train, I'd only expect to see GUVs in with BGs, CCTs and other XP rated vans, rather than your usual pick-up goods. But no doubt someone will be along with a picture soon to prove me wrong! :)

That makes more sense. The idea of a coach in the middle of a goods train did seem a bit odd- though as you say, there's an example for everything. You'd need something for the guard to ride in at least- a BG or even a BSK? The latter giving a few cheap seats for hardy (or hard up) travellers!


Some CCTs had guard accommodation as well, and it was certainly not unknown for kindly guards to allow the odd passenger worse for wear aboard a very early morning newspaper train if they were desperate! This is a useful page to look at for these sorts of trains.
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stuartp
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Re: GUV

Postby stuartp » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:05 pm

If carrying passenger-rated traffic (parcels, perishables, milk in churns, newspapers) then yes, it would be attached to a passenger train or run in a parcels train. But if working back empty it would go in whatever was most convenient, which might well include an ordinary goods train. Having end doors it could also carry cars which would also go by goods rather than passenger or parcels train. There is plenty of photographic evidence of GUVs and other parcels stock in goods trains.
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Bigmet
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Re: GUV

Postby Bigmet » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:16 am

pete12345 wrote:So can I run these as part of an ordinary goods train- as in with a mixture of fitted and unfitted vans and a goods brake at the rear? I guess it would be advantageous to have the GUV in the fitted head, but not strictly necessary? ...

Other than for short distance moves such as return empty to a specified collection location which might be in the pick up goods, marshalling a train, or movement to a loading or off loading dock, NPCS (non passenger coaching stock) such as GUV's would be continuously braked in service operation, unless unusual circumstances made this impossible. It's a far more expensive item than the equivalent capacity in four wheel wagons, and designed and maintained to be fit for operation in passenger service at the prevailing national speed limit with all the cost that goes with that, which four wheel wagons most certainly were not. Notices on BR's NPCS such as 'shunt with care', 'not to be hump shunted' make it plain that these are not goods wagons to be biffed around goods wagon style.

BR had plenty of both NCPS and goods wagons, and the staffing to organise the appropriate vehicles for the services they were to run in, most of the time. A high proportion of NPCS was allocated to regular traffic flows, and went up and down the line on the same trains for prolonged periods, interrupted only by planned maintenance and any defect or damage arising requiring repair.

Long distance empty transfers of NPCS which were carrying loads one way only - a good example, newspapers - were by empty carriage stock (ECS) trains, which could be quite huge caravans worked at moderate speeds sufficient for the vehicles to be at the loading point in time for the next loaded run.

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pete12345
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Re: GUV

Postby pete12345 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:12 pm

So for normal service:
GUV can run attached to passenger trains. Fitted vans can run as tail traffic, either on a passenger train or with the GUV. Vans could also run as a normal goods train with a brake van on the end. But GUV shouldn't run in this way.

Loading/unloading- in an ordinary platform? I've extended the 'loco spur' road of the Minories plan into a short fourth platform, so to me it makes sense for the GUV to be detached from the incoming train and shunted to the end of platform 4 to be dealt with there.
Once an engine attached to a train, was afraid of a few drops of rain...

Bigmet
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Re: GUV

Postby Bigmet » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:59 pm

Any platform will do! But by location there were regularly used spots or entire platforms effectively allocated, depending on traffic volume, road access, accommodating other train movements.

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cantmodelwontmodel
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Re: GUV

Postby cantmodelwontmodel » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:32 am

There are photos existing of single vans in goods trains but most likely "siphons" loaded with milk churns in the middle of milk tanks and Stove vans (lmr)

Guvs were often attached at the front of passenger trains especially those going to seaside destinations as luggage vans

There were also mixed passenger and goods trains in the more remote areas such as Scotland

Also quite rare they have been used as barrier wagons on certain types of freight such as nuclear flask or ammonia tanks
Ed


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