Preserving 'lost causes'?

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glencairn
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Re: Preserving 'lost causes'?

Postby glencairn » Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:10 pm

stuartp wrote:
glencairn wrote:As for the phrase - is it time to call time. When does one call time? Obviously it is the owners who say. If they are not going to do anything to rebuild then, to me, they should pass it on not let it rot at the back of a shed. If they are going to rebuild then fantastic.


Unfortunately this is one of the frustrations of private preservation, not only of locomotives but also classic cars, buildings, aircraft, anything. Unless it is of enough national significance to be protected then it is the owner's to do with exactly as they wish. Restore it, leave it to rot, break it for spares, weigh it in for scrap. Unless you have the means to take it off their hands and they're willing to let you, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.


One understands that, stuartp, and basically that answers my original question. :)
I personally acquired a German tram and looked after it so it did not deteriorate any more. until I could find someone who would and could restore it. (Fortunately I did.) :D

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Bufferstop
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Re: Preserving 'lost causes'?

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:26 pm

Isn't that the difference between restoration and conservation. There are many cases where an individual or group has seen the possibility of restoration, but not the means to do it and so their efforts have been focused on conservation of what remains, so that restoration is possible at some later date. In our case it's not helped by the fact that locomotives are built to be expendable. The better they are designed with that in mind the more likely there will be a date when it would be cheaper to start again. Without seeing the report into the condition of Flying Scotsman, you are left wondering just how much of the original still exists.
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alan_r
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Re: Preserving 'lost causes'?

Postby alan_r » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:42 pm

Surely there are different levels of restoration that are possible?
Not every restored loco needs to be a full runner - it could be given a basic clean and repaint to be a static exhibit for people to look at or even climb over and get right up close without the owner getting worried about it getting damaged. It might even help bring it to a wider audience then too.

I don't know if the museum exhibits at, say, the York National Railway Museum are all 'runners', but for most of the visitors this might be completely irrelevant. If the exhibits never leave the museum, does it matter that they might just be empty shells? Plenty of other museum exhibits from way back in time are incomplete, but it doesn't necessarily detract from them.
I remember there being a lunar lander at the Science Museum in London, but I'm sure it is not a real one and certainly not one that went to the moon (especially as most each one is still up there!), but it was the sense of scale and seeing a full sized one [even a mock-up] in the flesh that made the exhibit and I still remember seeing it to this day.

So I would say it may be a 'lost cause' as a future mainline runner, but could be restored to be a great background loco to be parked up in a siding or at an adjacent station platform.

Maybe even have ramps either side and make the cab a walk-through entrance gateway to a ticket booth for a heritage railway(something to look at whilst queuing and to get the visit started)? Many things are possible, rather than melting it down, which really would be a shame.

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Re: Preserving 'lost causes'?

Postby stuartp » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:24 pm

The 'restoration v preservation' argument is a whole other can of worms ! Even then you can't do right for doing wrong - Duchess of Hamilton, Green Arrow, Mallard etc. There are plenty of people trying to tell John Cameron what he should or shouldn't do with his A4 now it's out of ticket, but I bet they daren't tell him to his face !
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stuartp
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Re: Preserving 'lost causes'?

Postby stuartp » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:29 pm

glencairn wrote: I personally acquired a German tram and looked after it so it did not deteriorate any more. until I could find someone who would and could restore it. (Fortunately I did.) :D

Glencairn


I rebuilt a Series 2 Land-Rover about 20 years ago. It needs a lot of work doing on it again now - I haven't the time or inclination to do it but I can't bear to part with it.
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glencairn
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Re: Preserving 'lost causes'?

Postby glencairn » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:45 pm

Ah! Rebuilding something. That's a new ball-game and thread perhaps. :)

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Manitoba
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Re: Preserving 'lost causes'?

Postby Manitoba » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:43 am

stuartp wrote:there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.


That's not strictly true. If you have an interest in a particular project you can always contact them to see if they welcome people joining in and supporting them. After seeing this thread, that's what I intend to do in the fullness of time, as covid permits, in the case of 92219. It may be that the project is already secure to the point that it doesn't need external assistance. It doesn't look like it at first glance, but appearances can be deceptive, and informed comment is so much more useful than idle speculation. I have already discovered that the owner of the locomotive is a director of the Wensleydale Railway plc as of September 2015, and holds two other associated directorships based on the railway. How many of you on here were aware of that?

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Re: Preserving 'lost causes'?

Postby Manitoba » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:55 am

glencairn wrote: I personally acquired a German tram and looked after it so it did not deteriorate any more. until I could find someone who would and could restore it.
Glencairn


As a matter of interest, if you became aware of it, how would you have responded to someone posting on a forum such as this, a declaration that in their opinion your tram was a lost cause?

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glencairn
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Re: Preserving 'lost causes'?

Postby glencairn » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:48 am

Manitoba wrote:
stuartp wrote:there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.


That's not strictly true. If you have an interest in a particular project you can always contact them to see if they welcome people joining in and supporting them. After seeing this thread, that's what I intend to do in the fullness of time,


That would be nice; and I hope you genuinely succeed.

Manitoba wrote: It may be that the project is already secure to the point that it doesn't need external assistance. It doesn't look like it at first glance, but appearances can be deceptive, and informed comment is so much more useful than idle speculation. I have already discovered that the owner of the locomotive is a director of the Wensleydale Railway plc as of September 2015, and holds two other associated directorships based on the railway. How many of you on here were aware of that?


And as you continually attack me over a simple question perhaps we may meet.

Here are a some pictures for you.

IMG_2268.JPG


IMG_2269.JPG


IMG_2276.JPG


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Re: Preserving 'lost causes'?

Postby Lancastrian » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:49 am

As far as I am concerned the only person or persons who can say when a cause is lost is the individual or the group concerned in that cause. Equally though we can each have a personal opinion but that is all it is.
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Bufferstop
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Re: Preserving 'lost causes'?

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:04 am

This discussion seems to have become a case of "circular reference unresolved", ie going round in circles without moving on. I think it's time to drop it.
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